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Thread: Michael Lorenzen

  1. #46
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    Re: Michael Lorenzen

    http://wapc.mlb.com/play/?content_id...pic_id=7617858

    In this video it talks about hoe Lorenzen is putting hitting behind him, and going on to focus on being a pitcher. It says that the Reds will try him as a starter next season to see how his three pitches develop, with the ability to let him close if starting does not work.

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    BillDoran (10-27-2013), Edd Roush (10-25-2013), Old school 1983 (10-25-2013), REDREAD (10-28-2013)

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  4. #47
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    Re: Michael Lorenzen

    Quote Originally Posted by PepperJack View Post
    http://wapc.mlb.com/play/?content_id...pic_id=7617858

    In this video it talks about hoe Lorenzen is putting hitting behind him, and going on to focus on being a pitcher. It says that the Reds will try him as a starter next season to see how his three pitches develop, with the ability to let him close if starting does not work.
    Perfect.

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    Re: Michael Lorenzen

    Here is an article from Jim Callis that goes more in depth into the transition that Lorenzen is making, plus some info on the other Reds in the AFL.

    http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article/cin/...&vkey=news_cin


    "I'm just ready to compete, and I'm working my butt off to get my body in good enough shape -- in pitcher's shape, not center-field shape -- to where I have that longevity and I'm not just a power guy," Lorenzen said. "I'm still going to throw hard and I'm still going to come at you. But I think there's more of a strategy to it than just coming out and throwing my hardest and having the power breaking ball and all that."

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    REDREAD (10-28-2013)

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    Re: Michael Lorenzen

    http://marksheldon.mlblogs.com/2014/...iday-am-notes/


    *During Thursday’s live batting practice, Price was impressed with RHP prospect Michael Lorenzen, and the deception he has while pitching.

    “It’s not being able to see the ball and the pitcher being able to hide the ball well,” Price said. “It’s also that it looks like it’s going to come out easy and he’s going to pump it in there at 88. The next thing you know, it’s on you at 95-98. That’s real good deception.”

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    Old school 1983 (02-21-2014), REDREAD (02-21-2014)

  9. #50
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    Re: Michael Lorenzen

    I'm excited to see some more positive buzz on this kid.
    Big fan of him. Thanks for posting.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  10. #51
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    Re: Michael Lorenzen

    I was not all that excited about the Lorenzen pick so early in the draft. Good to know it's looking like I was dead wrong. Kid sounds like an intriguing prospect.

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    Re: Michael Lorenzen

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuckie View Post
    I was not all that excited about the Lorenzen pick so early in the draft. Good to know it's looking like I was dead wrong. Kid sounds like an intriguing prospect.
    What has changed between then and now other than he got his head handed to him on a platter in the Arizona Fall League? That the coach talked well about him using the same exact scouting report he had coming out of college?

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    Re: Michael Lorenzen

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    What has changed between then and now other than he got his head handed to him on a platter in the Arizona Fall League? That the coach talked well about him using the same exact scouting report he had coming out of college?
    He's being used as a starter now.

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  14. #54
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    Re: Michael Lorenzen

    OK, maybe I read this on this site and it's in my subconscious (so forgive me to whoever that might have already made this comparison), but after just reading the last few post of this thread I saw visions of Trevor Hoffman in my head. Now I've been dealing with sump pump issues and operating on like 5 hours sleep over the last 48 hours, not too mention totally giddy over the Bailey extension, but for some reason Trevor Hoffman's name entered my noggin like it just belonged there.

    So if this is my orginal thought and not someone else's, I'm going to predict this kid is the next Trevor Hoffman. If it is determined that I'm not the the first to offer this prediction/comparison, I apologize. I read a lot of internets, I'm getting old, and again I have not slept very much of late.

    If it is determined that I'm the first to offer this comparison then it's a win-win. If I'm eventually wrong, it won't be a big deal because Trevor Hoffman is a possible future HOFer and that'a a bold prediction, right? Basically nobody will care or even remember.

    If I'm right, I'm a legend on the Redszone and will go down as a legend of baseball discussion boards for the rest of the world. Again, it's totally a win-win here.

    So...............Trevor Hoffman (screw you, Marlins).

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    Patrick Bateman (02-21-2014)

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    Re: Michael Lorenzen

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    What has changed between then and now other than he got his head handed to him on a platter in the Arizona Fall League? That the coach talked well about him using the same exact scouting report he had coming out of college?
    He's not listed as an outfielder who might be a relief pitcher. I didn't like the sound of that.

    Now he's considered a starting pitcher. Huge difference.

  17. #56
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    Re: Michael Lorenzen

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuckie View Post
    He's not listed as an outfielder who might be a relief pitcher. I didn't like the sound of that.

    Now he's considered a starting pitcher. Huge difference.
    The Reds said from day one that he was going to be a pitcher.

    As for the starter thing.... yes, they have used him as a starter in the Arizona Fall League and he was absolutely, unequivocally obliterated. I can't see how his usage difference changes that much when the results we have from that switch were worse than anyone could have actually imagined short of him being injured while doing it.

    Given how quickly the Reds pushed him last year, and just how raw his arm is, I will still be surprised if he winds up starting in the long run. They want to move him fast, but he simply won't be able to move to a starters workload of 175+ innings for several years and even then he is going to have to figure out how to throw strikes to professional hitters and get his change up working.

    I am not saying give up on him being a starter, but the odds are strongly against it working.

  18. #57
    Wait... What? Vander's Avatar
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    Re: Michael Lorenzen

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    The Reds said from day one that he was going to be a pitcher.
    Actually, they didn't. They said that they had a "unique" strategy with him that would include hitting.

    http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/news/...k_cin&c_id=cin

    As for the starter thing.... yes, they have used him as a starter in the Arizona Fall League and he was absolutely, unequivocally obliterated. I can't see how his usage difference changes that much when the results we have from that switch were worse than anyone could have actually imagined short of him being injured while doing it.
    First of all, even a negative result is a result, and because he's transitioning into a starting pitcher, his status as a prospect has changed (for better or worse).

    As far as his experience in the AFL goes, six starts does not make or break a minor league career when they were basically his first few attempts at starting since he was 12 years old. It's just too small of a sample size and too early on in his career. I wouldn't be shocked if he had a really up and down year this year as well as he basically learns how to pitch all over again.

    Basically, I think the only thing that has changed about him as a prospect, in my mind, is that he has a new role as a starting pitcher, and that automatically makes him more valuable.

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    RadfordVA (02-22-2014)

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    Re: Michael Lorenzen

    Quote Originally Posted by Vander View Post
    Actually, they didn't. They said that they had a "unique" strategy with him that would include hitting.

    http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/news/...k_cin&c_id=cin



    First of all, even a negative result is a result, and because he's transitioning into a starting pitcher, his status as a prospect has changed (for better or worse).

    As far as his experience in the AFL goes, six starts does not make or break a minor league career when they were basically his first few attempts at starting since he was 12 years old. It's just too small of a sample size and too early on in his career. I wouldn't be shocked if he had a really up and down year this year as well as he basically learns how to pitch all over again.

    Basically, I think the only thing that has changed about him as a prospect, in my mind, is that he has a new role as a starting pitcher, and that automatically makes him more valuable.
    From the day he actually took the field, the Reds said he was going to be a pitcher in the organization. Talking with insiders, position play is a bit of a fallback plan, and while they may let him hit every now and again, they want him pitching.

    I fully understand the whole AFL experiment. He wasn't ready. He should have never been there. He wasn't ready or even close to it. But they sent him there and he was obliterated. His fastball wasn't getting by guys. While all games weren't in stadiums with Pitch F/X, He threw 40 fastballs with the system running. One fastball was swung at and missed all while averaging 94 MPH (that would rank him in the top 10 among MLB starters). He allowed nearly as many home runs (4) as he had strikeouts (5), while walking 12 batters. He was deeper into his season, innings wise, than he had ever been before and against a level of competition that was far beyond where he should have been, but he struggled to throw strikes and for a stuff guy, he couldn't miss bats at all. Starter or not, that is concerning.

    Let's not confuse it with me giving up on him, I ranked him #8 overall despite all of that because I am a believer in his two pitch combo to at least work as a reliever and hope that he can find the strikezone better like he showed in college. But the whole "he is a starter now" thing doesn't do much for me given just how atrocious his only attempt at it went. It wasn't just that guys were crushing him, they were also easily able to control the zone against him on the occasion he found it. He is the epitome of high risk/high reward right now.

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    Re: Michael Lorenzen

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    From the day he actually took the field, the Reds said he was going to be a pitcher in the organization. Talking with insiders, position play is a bit of a fallback plan, and while they may let him hit every now and again, they want him pitching.

    I fully understand the whole AFL experiment. He wasn't ready. He should have never been there. He wasn't ready or even close to it. But they sent him there and he was obliterated. His fastball wasn't getting by guys. While all games weren't in stadiums with Pitch F/X, He threw 40 fastballs with the system running. One fastball was swung at and missed all while averaging 94 MPH (that would rank him in the top 10 among MLB starters). He allowed nearly as many home runs (4) as he had strikeouts (5), while walking 12 batters. He was deeper into his season, innings wise, than he had ever been before and against a level of competition that was far beyond where he should have been, but he struggled to throw strikes and for a stuff guy, he couldn't miss bats at all. Starter or not, that is concerning.

    Let's not confuse it with me giving up on him, I ranked him #8 overall despite all of that because I am a believer in his two pitch combo to at least work as a reliever and hope that he can find the strikezone better like he showed in college. But the whole "he is a starter now" thing doesn't do much for me given just how atrocious his only attempt at it went. It wasn't just that guys were crushing him, they were also easily able to control the zone against him on the occasion he found it. He is the epitome of high risk/high reward right now.
    I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree on him then. I respect that you're simply using the available data to draw your conclusion about him, but I'm skeptical about the sample size. I need to see more than six starts before I feel comfortable drawing even the slightest conclusions about what his future may or may not be. He, much like every prospect who was recently drafted, is nothing more than potential right now, and that potential has me feeling optimistic.

    And no matter how much I look it up, I can't see a single article that was posted right after he was drafted that says that he wouldn't hit. Could you link me something that says that the reds were going to groom him as strictly a pitcher?

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    RadfordVA (02-22-2014)

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    Re: Michael Lorenzen

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    From the day he actually took the field, the Reds said he was going to be a pitcher in the organization. Talking with insiders, position play is a bit of a fallback plan, and while they may let him hit every now and again, they want him pitching.

    I fully understand the whole AFL experiment. He wasn't ready. He should have never been there. He wasn't ready or even close to it. But they sent him there and he was obliterated. His fastball wasn't getting by guys. While all games weren't in stadiums with Pitch F/X, He threw 40 fastballs with the system running. One fastball was swung at and missed all while averaging 94 MPH (that would rank him in the top 10 among MLB starters). He allowed nearly as many home runs (4) as he had strikeouts (5), while walking 12 batters. He was deeper into his season, innings wise, than he had ever been before and against a level of competition that was far beyond where he should have been, but he struggled to throw strikes and for a stuff guy, he couldn't miss bats at all. Starter or not, that is concerning.

    Let's not confuse it with me giving up on him, I ranked him #8 overall despite all of that because I am a believer in his two pitch combo to at least work as a reliever and hope that he can find the strikezone better like he showed in college. But the whole "he is a starter now" thing doesn't do much for me given just how atrocious his only attempt at it went. It wasn't just that guys were crushing him, they were also easily able to control the zone against him on the occasion he found it. He is the epitome of high risk/high reward right now.
    Can we really draw that deep a conclusion from 17 innings? He's obviously high risk, so maybe we're not as far off in opinion as it seems, but I'm a little hesitant to knock a college closer/outfielder for a few rough starts in a league of players well beyond his level of experience.


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