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Thread: All Star Game Selection Thread

  1. #76
    Haunted by walks
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    Re: All Star Game Selection Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    On the other hand, who has had a bigger impact on the NL West race and, I think eventually, the wild card race? The Dodgers were dead. Puig came, went nuts and breathed life into that team. My bet is that they win the West and possibly push a team like Arizona into a wild card spot ahead of one of the Central teams.

    He's been a real life version of Roy Hobbs, having an impact that elevates a dead team to championship contention. I like stats, but baseball is about winning games. I see him making a direct impact towards winning on the field game after game. To me that's more important looking at a stat sheet and reflecting back later.

    I agree with the small sample size aspect of his stat line, but that's not why I'd take him.
    I pretty much agree; the guy's a Star in spite of the small sample size. It reminds me a little of Jack Armstrong, though.

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  3. #77
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    Re: All Star Game Selection Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRedsFan View Post
    The results were as expected. Joey, Brandon and of course, Chapman. We have a higher opinion of the rest of our roster, as to be expected. Latos has been uneven. Leake is not respected, and Bailey is, like Latos. Jay is Jay and streaky and we know Bochy has no love for the rest of our guys. I don't have much regard for the AS game anyway. I see a time where the players get time off and it makes no difference in the whole scheme of things. I don't even watch the game anymore, just like I don't watch the NBA and NFL games. So, let them play and let's get back to real baseball
    Bochy has no love for Reds players? Where did you hear this? I have not heard anything bad about anything in regards to him not liking the Reds at all.

    The NFL and NBA AS games are a joke compared to baseball.....not even close. They do not play defense really. In baseball you still have to play defense and pitch. You cannot half A it... just because there is no rivalry like their used to be....do not think for 1 minute that each side does not want to win this thing.

  4. #78
    High five! nate's Avatar
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    Re: All Star Game Selection Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Blitz Dorsey View Post
    What, what? Of course you should judge a trade AFTER it happens. Usually about 5 years after the fact is best, so we're still 2-3 years away from that for the Wood/Marshall trade, but I'm confident in saying the Cubs won that one big time.

    Doug, your rationale is baffling. It would be akin to a college football or college basketball fan saying "You don't judge a recruiting class on what they accomplish after they sign with the school, you judge the recruiting class based on what they did in high school."

    Or, to use a professional sports example, it would be like you saying, "You don't judge a free agent signing on what happens after the signing, you judge it based on what happened before the contract was signed." Because, I'm sure the Angels are loving all those stats Pujols put up for the Cardinals. That sure is helping them now that he stinks.

    I will say whoever was responsible for trading Frank Robinson years ago is fully on board with not judging trades after they happen.

    Wow, Doug. Will give you a mulligan on this one I suppose. But of course the best way to judge trades is after they happen. And sports fans/media do it all the time. We look back on trades and judge who won. Example: The Latos trade. We won that one.
    The problem is framing the argument in terms of "winning" and "losing" trades. No team goes into a trade to "lose." All teams go into a trade looking to improve based on their needs; it's not a zero-sum game.

    The other problem is recency of performance.

    Did we "win" the Marshall trade last year when Marshall provided 3x the value of Wood and helped us get to the post-season while the Cubs were very Cub-like?

    Are we "winning" it now?

    I suppose one could get their swagger on and say we "won" the Latos trade but will that still be the case when the players involved are no longer with their current teams?
    "Bring on Rod Stupid!"

  5. #79
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    Re: All Star Game Selection Thread

    Most of the reserves and pitchers are voted in by the players, the managers get to pick a few, with input from MLB, but some of those are taken up by every team needing a representative. I think the player vote is what usually messes things up more than the fan vote.
    "Reality tells us there are no guarantees. Except that some day Jon Lester will be on that list of 100-game winners." - Peter Gammons

  6. #80
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    Re: All Star Game Selection Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by nate View Post
    The problem is framing the argument in terms of "winning" and "losing" trades. No team goes into a trade to "lose." All teams go into a trade looking to improve based on their needs; it's not a zero-sum game.

    The other problem is recency of performance.

    Did we "win" the Marshall trade last year when Marshall provided 3x the value of Wood and helped us get to the post-season while the Cubs were very Cub-like?

    Are we "winning" it now?

    I suppose one could get their swagger on and say we "won" the Latos trade but will that still be the case when the players involved are no longer with their current teams?
    I see your point, but I think that's why Blitz was saying you need a 5 year or so period before you can really assess who came out ahead in the trade. Every player will go with a good streak or a bad streak, but over a good period of time you can get a good assessment of their abilities.

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  8. #81
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    Re: All Star Game Selection Thread

    If there is an injury Bochy will surely pick Pence to replace any outfielder.

  9. #82
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    Re: All Star Game Selection Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by nate View Post
    The problem is framing the argument in terms of "winning" and "losing" trades. No team goes into a trade to "lose." All teams go into a trade looking to improve based on their needs; it's not a zero-sum game.

    The other problem is recency of performance.

    Did we "win" the Marshall trade last year when Marshall provided 3x the value of Wood and helped us get to the post-season while the Cubs were very Cub-like?

    Are we "winning" it now?

    I suppose one could get their swagger on and say we "won" the Latos trade but will that still be the case when the players involved are no longer with their current teams?
    I agree.


    Only clear wins of a trade I ever saw (Or can recall) within a year were The Robinson trade and the Morgan trade....and The Jimmy Winn for Claude Osteen trade in 1974.

    This one has yet to be fully written out. Marshall was big in Reds winning last year, unless this is a Long term injury....it is still a good trade, as the Reds have replacements for starters more than it seems relievers.

  10. #83
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    Re: All Star Game Selection Thread

    ctrent ‏@ctrent
    Bruce Bochy texted Dusty, told him it was hard leaving Bruce, Choo, Latos, Leake and Homer off, especially Bruce

  11. #84
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    Re: All Star Game Selection Thread

    You win a trade by making the playoffs. That's all that ever matters. Everything else is just fodder for talk radio and message boards.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  12. #85
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    Re: All Star Game Selection Thread

    ctrent ‏@ctrent
    Bruce Bochy texted Dusty, told him it was hard leaving Bruce, Choo, Latos, Leake and Homer off, especially Bruce
    I have a feeling Bochy sent out a few of these texts to other mangers. That's why I'm not too bothered by it. I'm sure the fans of a bunch of teams feel the same way about some of their players. You can't take everyone whose having a good year.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  13. #86
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    Re: All Star Game Selection Thread

    It's just like us fans, though. We complain that Choo can't hit lefties, Bruce is so streaky he goes cold for extended periods and looks lost, Leake is pitching great for a #5 starter but gets lit up sometimes, but why doesn't Bochy see that they're All-Stars?

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  15. #87
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    Re: All Star Game Selection Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BCubb2003 View Post
    It's just like us fans, though. We complain that Choo can't hit lefties, Bruce is so streaky he goes cold for extended periods and looks lost, Leake is pitching great for a #5 starter but gets lit up sometimes, but why doesn't Bochy see that they're All-Stars?
    This is worth a double like but sadly there is not button for that
    "When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail"

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    Re: All Star Game Selection Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ironman92 View Post
    If there is an injury Bochy will surely pick Pence to replace any outfielder.
    That would be sad as Bruce is better than him in almost every statistical category.

  17. #89
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    Re: All Star Game Selection Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by DocRed View Post
    That would be sad as Bruce is better than him in almost every statistical category.
    Yeah, but Bruce doesn't play for him. I think managers get to play a little bit of favorites.

    It's about
    the ball,
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    and the fans

  18. #90
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    Re: All Star Game Selection Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BCubb2003 View Post
    It's just like us fans, though. We complain that Choo can't hit lefties, Bruce is so streaky he goes cold for extended periods and looks lost, Leake is pitching great for a #5 starter but gets lit up sometimes, but why doesn't Bochy see that they're All-Stars?
    I think managers consider the positives and negatives of each player, just as fans do. It's not as if there's a perfect player out there.
    "I talked to an advance scout that told me if Joey Votto and Albert Pujols were on the same team he'd advise his team to do the unthinkable...pitch around Votto to get to Pujols." - Buster Olney, ESPN


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