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Thread: Why all the outrage over Bruce but no one seems upset that Choo didn't make All-Star?

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    Why all the outrage over Bruce but no one seems upset that Choo didn't make All-Star?

    Choo: .876OPS, 136OPS+, .386wOBA, 146wRC+, 2.7fWAR, 2.1rWAR
    Bruce: .830OPS, 119OPS+, .352wOBA, 122wRC+, 1.7fWAR, 2.7rWAR

    It is apparent that Choo deserves All-Star much more than Bruce.
    In fact, Bruce doesn't deserve it in common with Phillips.
    Is it because fans feel more attached to Bruce or they have a subconscious racial feeling or both?
    Last edited by junkhead; 07-07-2013 at 07:21 AM.

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    Big Red Machine RedsBaron's Avatar
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    Re: Why all the outrage over Bruce but no one seems upset that Choo didn't make All-S

    1. Bruce's rWar score is higher than Choo's, reflecting the fact that Bruce's defense is superior to Choo's, and that Bruce has actually been slightly the better player this season.
    2. Bruce is coming off of a recent hot streak whereas Choo's performance has declined markedly since the early part of the season.
    3. Bruce has been with the Reds for several seasons whereas Choo has been with the Reds for several months. It would be surprising if Reds fans were not more attached to Bruce than they are Choo.
    "Hey...Dad. Wanna Have A Catch?" Kevin Costner in "Field Of Dreams."

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    We Need Our Myths reds1869's Avatar
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    Re: Why all the outrage over Bruce but no one seems upset that Choo didn't make All-S

    Home runs are attention grabbers, and Bruce hits them by the boatload. The average fans still values BA above any other rate stat and they are virtual equals in that department.

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    Re: Why all the outrage over Bruce but no one seems upset that Choo didn't make All-S

    did u really suggest it might be racial? lol no more reading needed after that.

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    Re: Why all the outrage over Bruce but no one seems upset that Choo didn't make All-S

    Quote Originally Posted by bmwreds31 View Post
    did u really suggest it might be racial? lol no more reading needed after that.
    Well the U.S. is still at war with Korea. Wait, it was a conflict and not a war. This whole thing must make the haters not vote for Korean players. They'll show them and help win the war... oops, win the conflict! North (enemy) or South (friend) and that 38th Parallel makes no difference to all the haters. Do not blame their conscious mind... it is a subconscious thing. And now it all makes sense why Puig didn't make it. I guess all the haters forgot about the two Puerto Rican nationalists who tried to take care of President Truman in 1950. Good thing the Dominican Republic never messed with the United Nations or the United States.

    Small market fan... always hoping, but never expecting.

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    Re: Why all the outrage over Bruce but no one seems upset that Choo didn't make All-S

    Choo is not in the All Star game because he is a below average fielder with a .268 average and couldnt hit a beach ball thrown at him if it came from a lefty!

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    Re: Why all the outrage over Bruce but no one seems upset that Choo didn't make All-S

    You'll find frustration if you try to find rhyme or reason to All star picks. It's a popularity contest... Far less deserving than Choo or Bruce are on the All Star team.

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    Re: Why all the outrage over Bruce but no one seems upset that Choo didn't make All-S

    Ichiro has won some slots, can't see Asian bias as a viable excuse, dang thing is a popularity contest and has all the science of a tinker toy set

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    Re: Why all the outrage over Bruce but no one seems upset that Choo didn't make All-S

    Choo hasn't really played at an all-star level since the 3rd or 4th week of the season. Bruce has played at an all-star level for most of the past couple months. I think Bruce should have gotten a spot. Choo, not so much. It's hard to ignore how bad Choo has been against lefties. Last I saw, the margin between his BA vs RH and BA vs LH is the widest of any MLB hitter since 1974. That's a long time and a lot of players.
    "I talked to an advance scout that told me if Joey Votto and Albert Pujols were on the same team he'd advise his team to do the unthinkable...pitch around Votto to get to Pujols." - Buster Olney, ESPN

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    Re: Why all the outrage over Bruce but no one seems upset that Choo didn't make All-S

    Quote Originally Posted by New York Red View Post
    Choo hasn't really played at an all-star level since the 3rd or 4th week of the season. Bruce has played at an all-star level for most of the past couple months.
    I don't get it. What are you talking about?

    Bruce: .651(April) .938(May) .954(June) .602(July)
    Choo: 1.031(April) .880(May) .711(June) .885(July)

    It was just one month(June) in which Choo had not played well in common with Bruce(April). And, of course, Choo's overall number is better than BRUCE's

    Quote Originally Posted by New York Red View Post
    I think Bruce should have gotten a spot. Choo, not so much.
    Among 30 NL outfielders, Choo is 4th in wOBA, 4th in wRC+ and 5th in WAR while Bruce is 10th in wOBA, 12th in wRC+ and 11th in WAR.

    When considering the fact that Michael Cuddyer who is 1st in both wOBA and wRC+ and 13th in WAR has played just 67 games out of 88 games, Choo should be a starter along with Gomez and Gonzalez. But Bruce doesn't deserve even a reserve, not even close.

    Quote Originally Posted by New York Red View Post
    It's hard to ignore how bad Choo has been against lefties. Last I saw, the margin between his BA vs RH and BA vs LH is the widest of any MLB hitter since 1974. That's a long time and a lot of players.
    It's a mere excuse. Why do you even consider BA vs LH which is meaningless just like BA with RISP due to the small sample size instead of overall numbers in All-Star selection? It's hard for you to ignore it because you like Bruce more than Choo.

    "He was hitting the ball hard," Baker said. "And I said, 'Hey man, you're going to get hot.' I could just see it. He may not see it, but I can see it because he was swinging the bat well, just not getting anything to show for it."

    Just look at Choo's BABIP vs LH and the quality of batted ball by him, not just batting avg. He has been unlucky.

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    Re: Why all the outrage over Bruce but no one seems upset that Choo didn't make All-S

    I think there are plenty of reasons for "outrage" about Bruce not going, but not over Choo.

    The already mentioned fact that Bruce is a long term Red. Being drafted in 2005, and making his debut in 2008, plus signing a long term contract, and hoping to be a Red for life.
    Can all help in a fan's feelings toward a player.

    Choo while talented has only been here this season, and is expected to leave in free agency, which can hurt in attachment towards a player.


    Also defending Choo's struggles against LHP as small sample size, but bringing up his OPS in July is a little ironic.

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    Re: Why all the outrage over Bruce but no one seems upset that Choo didn't make All-S

    Quote Originally Posted by PepperJack View Post
    I think there are plenty of reasons for "outrage" about Bruce not going, but not over Choo.

    The already mentioned fact that Bruce is a long term Red. Being drafted in 2005, and making his debut in 2008, plus signing a long term contract, and hoping to be a Red for life.
    Can all help in a fan's feelings toward a player.

    Choo while talented has only been here this season, and is expected to leave in free agency, which can hurt in attachment towards a player.


    Also defending Choo's struggles against LHP as small sample size, but bringing up his OPS in July is a little ironic.
    OPS in May or April is small sample size, too.

    I have said as follows. "Why do you even consider BA vs LH which is meaningless just like BA with RISP due to the small sample size instead of overall numbers in All-Star selection?"

    And New York Red, not me, divided the overall numbers into small sample size(week and month)because of his feeling toward Bruce as a fan like you said.

    Fans complain about unfairness of All-Star selection?

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    Re: Why all the outrage over Bruce but no one seems upset that Choo didn't make All-S

    Quote Originally Posted by junkhead View Post
    OPS in May or April is small sample size, too.

    I have said as follows. "Why do you even consider BA vs LH which is meaningless just like BA with RISP due to the small sample size instead of overall numbers in All-Star selection?"

    And New York Red, not me, divided the overall numbers into small sample size(week and month)because of his feeling toward Bruce as a fan like you said.

    Fans complain about unfairness of All-Star selection?


    I can understand about each month being a small sample, but 1/3 of July is an extreme small sample size when looking at whole months.


    The numbers you posted show that Choo's hot start, and extremely good OPS in April is what I think he meant by playing at an all star level early.

    That start caused a lot of threads to be created saying we have to resign Choo, or trade Bruce to keep Choo. There have been threads like that, as well as sports talk show conversation about it.

    Fans can be fickle throughout the season, it can be a roller-coaster ride.

    As far as Choo's splits against LHP/RHP, they are significant and many a player has been platooned over less. Bruce use to have struggles against LHP earlier in his career and has improved quite a bit vs them. Sadly for Choo, his numbers have gotten worse against them each of the last 3 seasons.

    Choo has been just what the Reds needed from a lead off hitter, and most if not all fans are happy the Reds traded for him, but pointing out his flaws is no different than when they mention the struggles of Frazier/Cozart/Heisey/etc,etc,etc.

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    Re: Why all the outrage over Bruce but no one seems upset that Choo didn't make All-S

    The Farce is that Chapman made the roster over Leake or Latos, both of them having much better seasons...

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    Re: Why all the outrage over Bruce but no one seems upset that Choo didn't make All-S

    Quote Originally Posted by junkhead View Post
    I don't get it. What are you talking about?

    Bruce: .651(April) .938(May) .954(June) .602(July)
    Choo: 1.031(April) .880(May) .711(June) .885(July)

    It was just one month(June) in which Choo had not played well in common with Bruce(April). And, of course, Choo's overall number is better than BRUCE's


    Among 30 NL outfielders, Choo is 4th in wOBA, 4th in wRC+ and 5th in WAR while Bruce is 10th in wOBA, 12th in wRC+ and 11th in WAR.

    When considering the fact that Michael Cuddyer who is 1st in both wOBA and wRC+ and 13th in WAR has played just 67 games out of 88 games, Choo should be a starter along with Gomez and Gonzalez. But Bruce doesn't deserve even a reserve, not even close.


    It's a mere excuse. Why do you even consider BA vs LH which is meaningless just like BA with RISP due to the small sample size instead of overall numbers in All-Star selection? It's hard for you to ignore it because you like Bruce more than Choo.

    "He was hitting the ball hard," Baker said. "And I said, 'Hey man, you're going to get hot.' I could just see it. He may not see it, but I can see it because he was swinging the bat well, just not getting anything to show for it."

    Just look at Choo's BABIP vs LH and the quality of batted ball by him, not just batting avg. He has been unlucky.
    Unlucky? Anytime a player is the worst at something "since 1974" and "the 3rd worst in the history of the league", luck isn't an overriding factor. He seems to be heating back up lately though. Hopefully that continues.
    "I talked to an advance scout that told me if Joey Votto and Albert Pujols were on the same team he'd advise his team to do the unthinkable...pitch around Votto to get to Pujols." - Buster Olney, ESPN


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