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Thread: Is the offense in serious trouble?

  1. #1
    Member Wonderful Monds's Avatar
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    Is the offense in serious trouble?

    Examining the club right now, I see two dependable bats that will be here past this year, Votto and Bruce, and even Jay goes through his dead periods at the plate.

    For one, Brandon Phillips, for all his overall value, has fallen off a cliff for the lay month+ now (sub 600 OPS) after his great start. Is he declining? Is he injured? He's the next closest thing to a sure bet the Reds have.

    Todd Frazier has been in the same boat this year. He's been surprisingly good defensively. At the plate, he's struggling to keep his SLG over 400.

    Hanigan appears to be past his days of being a useful hitting catcher. Mesoraco continues to be whatever. Catcher is a problem spot for sure.

    Most things that can be said about Cozart have already been said. 260 OBP and a genuinely useless player with a bat in his hands.

    CF is going to be a question mark when Choo leaves. Choo himself has been an extreme platoon player this season also.

    LF is not looking so hot, now that Paul and Robinson's hot streaks are over. Ludwick will be back, but he could turn into Scott Rolen (current model) if his shoulder is bum.


    Of all these positions, the only one where help appears to be near in the minors is CF where Billy Hamiton currently plays, but he too has a lot of questions to be answered.

    Might the Reds need to make a major move to bring in some help to the offense?
    They don't think it be like it is, but it do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Schuler View Post
    He has also taught me that even when the Reds win it is important to focus on the fact that they could have lost.

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    Kc61 (07-07-2013)

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    No half measures, Walter RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: Is the offense in serious trouble?

    The trio of Votto, Bruce and Phillips are the core of the offense moving forward thru the current window. They are good enough to contend IMO if savvy complementary pieces are brought in on shorter-term deals to help them. The front office did that this year with Choo and Ludwick, but injuries have prevented that plan from fully unfolding.

    I think a lot of the offense's future depends on what Mes and Billy Hamilton bring to the table as they mature. If they both become core components, the offense could thrive. If they struggle, I think we'll see more uneven performance, but enough run production overall to contend.
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

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    Member Wonderful Monds's Avatar
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    Re: Is the offense in serious trouble?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    The trio of Votto, Bruce and Phillips are the core of the offense moving forward thru the current window. They are good enough to contend IMO if savvy complementary pieces are brought in on shorter-term deals to help them. The front office did that this year with Choo and Ludwick, but injuries have prevented that plan from fully unfolding.

    I think a lot of the offense's future depends on what Mes and Billy Hamilton bring to the table as they mature. If they both become core components, the offense could thrive. If they struggle, I think we'll see more uneven performance, but enough run production overall to contend.
    Good points.

    Hamilton is the wild card. It'll be hard to judge his contribution if he doesn't hit his ceiling. If he's OBPing around 300, for example, but he's still stealing bases basically at will, I think he'll still be pretty useful.
    Also, as I pointed out on the minor league board, it sure would be nice to have Billy on SS still so the team could potentially have two players on the way to fill major holes now that Ervin is in the mix.

    Mes also gives some hope since he's got a lot of untapped potential, I hope he's able to reach it.
    They don't think it be like it is, but it do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Schuler View Post
    He has also taught me that even when the Reds win it is important to focus on the fact that they could have lost.

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    RedEye (07-07-2013)

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    Member Ironman92's Avatar
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    Re: Is the offense in serious trouble?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wonderful Monds View Post
    Good points.

    Hamilton is the wild card. It'll be hard to judge his contribution if he doesn't hit his ceiling. If he's OBPing around 300, for example, but he's still stealing bases basically at will, I think he'll still be pretty useful.
    Also, as I pointed out on the minor league board, it sure would be nice to have Billy on SS still so the team could potentially have two players on the way to fill major holes now that Ervin is in the mix.

    Mes also gives some hope since he's got a lot of untapped potential, I hope he's able to reach it.
    Ready or not (vast majority believe not)....Hamilton being brought up and placed a top the order would be the spark this team at this point needs. If he was OB% .300 and permitted to steal/ hit and run with Choo up.....I think this team would take off.

    And the only thing about my thoughts on this that we know for sure.....we KNOW that we'll never find out.

    I so wish this team.....regardless of lineup order would battle the pitcher and realize the pitchers know how aggressive this team is and overloads them with pitcher's strike. I believe it's good once a game to swing at the first pitch. I believe on young pitchers you have to learn something during your first at bat about that pitcher. Have an idea of how the pitcher is trying to get you out.

    Battle and hit ball where it is pitched.

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    Re: Is the offense in serious trouble?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ironman92 View Post
    Ready or not (vast majority believe not)....Hamilton being brought up and placed a top the order would be the spark this team at this point needs. If he was OB% .300 and permitted to steal/ hit and run with Choo up.....I think this team would take off.
    He's not ready. He's barely posting an OBP of .300 in Louisville (.302), so I can't imagine that he can do that in Cincinnati. He has a ways to go to show that he'll be ready for next year, let alone this year, although I think he's the starting CF in '14 barring an outright collapse in the second half of his '13 season.

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    Worst Behavior. reds44's Avatar
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    Re: Is the offense in serious trouble?

    I have not soured on Hamilton at all. He's only 22 and I think his numbers will end up better than they are at in AAA.

    However, a player with a .650 OPS in AAA isn't the answer to any question right now.
    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    Let's face it, you mis-hit the bun with the mustard squirter, no one will really care.

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    Member Ironman92's Avatar
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    Re: Is the offense in serious trouble?

    Again, we'll never know.

  11. #8
    No half measures, Walter RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: Is the offense in serious trouble?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ironman92 View Post
    Again, we'll never know.
    We'll never know what?

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    No half measures, Walter RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: Is the offense in serious trouble?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ironman92 View Post
    I so wish this team.....regardless of lineup order would battle the pitcher and realize the pitchers know how aggressive this team is and overloads them with pitcher's strike. I believe it's good once a game to swing at the first pitch. I believe on young pitchers you have to learn something during your first at bat about that pitcher. Have an idea of how the pitcher is trying to get you out.

    Battle and hit ball where it is pitched.
    How do we know they aren't doing this?

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    Worst Behavior. reds44's Avatar
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    Re: Is the offense in serious trouble?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ironman92 View Post
    Again, we'll never know.
    I wouldn't help the offense either.

    We may never know, but we probably know.
    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    Let's face it, you mis-hit the bun with the mustard squirter, no one will really care.

  14. #11
    Member Ironman92's Avatar
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    Re: Is the offense in serious trouble?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    We'll never know what?
    What I said in my original post that we will never know.

    I don't want Wonderful's thread to be turned into a BH debate. I simply gave a thought of what I believe would work for a short term spurt but also acknowledged it will never happen we'll never know.

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    Member Ironman92's Avatar
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    Re: Is the offense in serious trouble?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    How do we know they aren't doing this?
    I'm going with the eyeball argument. Votto and Choo battle the pitcher.....BP and Frazier do when they get to 2 strikes....Hanigan wants to but isn't good enough.....and several of them love to pull that pitch that the pitcher wants them to pull......take it oppo

  16. #13
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    Re: Is the offense in serious trouble?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ironman92 View Post
    Again, we'll never know.
    As a coach, that's the argument that makes my skin crawl. It's usually one made by the parent of a kid who isn't very good... "he never gets to play so we'll never know if he's any good".

    Hamilton would be a desperation move at this point. If the Reds tank the rest of the month while BH gets hot, maybe you'd see it happen. That's the only scenario that I'd think it could happen.

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    RedEye (07-07-2013)

  18. #14
    No half measures, Walter RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: Is the offense in serious trouble?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ironman92 View Post
    What I said in my original post that we will never know.

    I don't want Wonderful's thread to be turned into a BH debate. I simply gave a thought of what I believe would work for a short term spurt but also acknowledged it will never happen we'll never know.
    So you claim that BH would help the team if he were brought up, but when someone disagrees and offers counter-evidence, you say "we'll never know"? What's the point of making a claim if you can't base it on anything?

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    No half measures, Walter RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: Is the offense in serious trouble?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ironman92 View Post
    I'm going with the eyeball argument. Votto and Choo battle the pitcher.....BP and Frazier do when they get to 2 strikes....Hanigan wants to but isn't good enough.....and several of them love to pull that pitch that the pitcher wants them to pull......take it oppo
    I agree that it does look like Choo and Votto are battling pitchers far more effectively. I guess what I'm saying is that, for all we know, the other players are trying to do the same thing but failing. What Choo and Votto do is great -- but not everyone can do it. That's why they are Choo and Votto. BP and Frazier have had some success doing things the way they do, and for whatever reason they aren't able to modify their approaches and still maintain success. Your argument presumes that all ML hitters are able to suddenly become different. They aren't.


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