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Thread: 1. Choo 2. Votto 3. Phillips 4. Bruce ....... the time is NOW!!!!!!!

  1. #61
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    Re: 1. Choo 2. Votto 3. Phillips 4. Bruce ....... the time is NOW!!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    I can't imagine moving Votto to the 2nd position would have Dusty's job on the line. This is a slippery slope argument IMO. If things go badly, for god sakes he can just go back to his "SS hits 2nd" ways.
    It's not the move so much as the potential implied causation...Votto moves to 2 hole, Votto slumps, Reds slump, Reds miss playoffs, Dusty may be on hot seat.

    You are correct, its a slippery slope, but I still see it being reason enough for him to not try such a move.
    "Today was the byproduct of us thinking we can come back from anything." - Joey Votto after blowing a 10-1 lead and holding on for the 12-11 win on 8/25/2010.

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  3. #62
    It's showtime! RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: 1. Choo 2. Votto 3. Phillips 4. Bruce ....... the time is NOW!!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Griffey012 View Post
    It's not the move so much as the potential implied causation...Votto moves to 2 hole, Votto slumps, Reds slump, Reds miss playoffs, Dusty may be on hot seat.

    You are correct, its a slippery slope, but I still see it being reason enough for him to not try such a move.
    I dunno. On the flip side, It still seems like something a manager could try for a bit to see if it works. Regardless of the validity of sample sizes, a hot streak could push someone like Dusty to reconsider his preconceptions about the game, could it not?

  4. #63
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: 1. Choo 2. Votto 3. Phillips 4. Bruce ....... the time is NOW!!!!!!!

    Dusty probably will be done after this contract. He's got guaranteed money and no World Series titles as a manager.

    Time to be less conservative.
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

  5. #64
    It's showtime! RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: 1. Choo 2. Votto 3. Phillips 4. Bruce ....... the time is NOW!!!!!!!

    ... the time is NEVER!!!!!!

  6. #65
    Pitching is the thing WVRedsFan's Avatar
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    Re: 1. Choo 2. Votto 3. Phillips 4. Bruce ....... the time is NOW!!!!!!!

    All I could think of when I saw the title of this thread was:

    1. Hit
    2. Hit
    3. Double play
    4. Strikeout

    Sorry, I couldn't resist. Please excuse my sense of humor. Too much drama around here, but that's alright.
    www.ris-news.com
    "You only have to bat a thousand in two things; flying and heart transplants. Everything else you can go 4-for-5."
    -Beano Cook

  7. #66
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    Re: 1. Choo 2. Votto 3. Phillips 4. Bruce ....... the time is NOW!!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRedsFan View Post
    All I could think of when I saw the title of this thread was:

    1. Hit
    2. Hit
    3. Double play
    4. Strikeout
    Well, that would certainly be one of the possible outcomes, yes.

  8. #67
    13 Belongs in Cooperstown Captain13's Avatar
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    Re: 1. Choo 2. Votto 3. Phillips 4. Bruce ....... the time is NOW!!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    Not true. Almost any hitter the Reds have would be better in the 2nd spot that Cozart. It's more of a rally killer to have an out machine between your good hitters at the top than it is to have a "dead" spot in the lineup between 6-9.
    Except 3B, any other option at SS, LF or C. None of those are a significant upgrade. I would argue that if you move Votto, Phillips or Bruce to the 2 hole then the "soft spot" is from 5-9 or over half the lineup.
    What if this is as good as it gets?

  9. #68
    It's showtime! RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: 1. Choo 2. Votto 3. Phillips 4. Bruce ....... the time is NOW!!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain13 View Post
    Except 3B, any other option at SS, LF or C. None of those are a significant upgrade. I would argue that if you move Votto, Phillips or Bruce to the 2 hole then the "soft spot" is from 5-9 or over half the lineup.
    Disagree. Cozart has a .618 OPS, lifetime .667. The other options? Frazier currently has a .732 OPS, and should be around .100 higher than Cozart, give or take. Heisey, even in the depths of his current malaise, is posting a .664 -- which is more than likely to be over .700 in short order given his career norms. Paul? He's at .728, so even if he continues his downward progression, he'll still be much higher than Cozie. The catchers? Well, Hanny is slumping/injured and Mes still has something to prove. So yeah, that would probably be a wash -- but with more upside at C.

    Ironically, the most consistent replacement for the worst hitter (Cozart) at the top of the lineup has been the one guy on the team (Robinson) most likely to replicate his dismal performance.

  10. #69
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    Re: 1. Choo 2. Votto 3. Phillips 4. Bruce ....... the time is NOW!!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post

    Ironically, the most consistent replacement for the worst hitter (Cozart) at the top of the lineup has been the one guy on the team (Robinson) most likely to NOT EVEN MATCH his dismal performance.
    There fixed it for ya

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  12. #70
    .377 in 1905 CySeymour's Avatar
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    Re: 1. Choo 2. Votto 3. Phillips 4. Bruce ....... the time is NOW!!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    Exactly what is he supposed to say? Just asking the question is insulting one of his players. No matter how diplomatically the question is put, it boils down to "why is a guy who sucks so much hitting at the top of the order?"

    Dusty is the Manager over a group of guys. There is no way he can get into any type of debate without something uncomplimentary being said of one of the human beings under his watch. Dusty's stonewalling seems like the only way he can really handle it IMO. Bringing it up is insulting some one and I think Dusty is trying to make it clear that he doesn't want to go there.

    I don't think Cozart should hit second, but if I was somehow on the team and was asked the question, I'd react exactly like Dusty does.
    On one hand, I totally agree with you. No one likes to be questioned about the decisions they make. But on the other hand, that is just part of being a head coach/manager in professional sports. Ask Rex Ryan how he liked being asked time and time again if Mark Sanchez was still the starting QB.

    I totally expect any manager to defend/stand up for his player in times like this. But with Dusty, he often acts like he can't understand why someone would question what he does. And fine, if he gets asked it, he can say he has confidence in Cozart and believes he will improve. Even if he doesn't believe what he is saying. But don't come across like he is above being questioned.
    ...the 2-2 to Woodsen and here it comes...and it is swung on and missed! And Tom Browning has pitched a perfect game! Twenty-seven outs in a row, and he is being mobbed by his teammates, just to the thirdbase side of the mound.

  13. #71
    Matt's Dad RANDY IN INDY's Avatar
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    Re: 1. Choo 2. Votto 3. Phillips 4. Bruce ....... the time is NOW!!!!!!!

    I haven't commented on this thread but the more I think about Votto in the two hole, the more it makes perfect sense. He is hitting way more like a two hole hitter this season than a three hole hitter. Choo, Votto, Phillips, Bruce makes perfect sense. I really like the idea.
    Talent is God Given: be humble.
    Fame is man given: be thankful.
    Conceit is self given: be careful.

    John Wooden

  14. #72
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    Re: 1. Choo 2. Votto 3. Phillips 4. Bruce ....... the time is NOW!!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by RANDY IN INDY View Post
    I haven't commented on this thread but the more I think about Votto in the two hole, the more it makes perfect sense. He is hitting way more like a two hole hitter this season than a three hole hitter. Choo, Votto, Phillips, Bruce makes perfect sense. I really like the idea.
    Not only that...but how often do you have a chance to bat the two highest OBP guys in the whole NL in the same lineup? Why put an easy out between them. Votto up with a man on 1st and no outs is a darn good thing.

  15. #73
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    Re: 1. Choo 2. Votto 3. Phillips 4. Bruce ....... the time is NOW!!!!!!!

    Votto hitting 2nd? In an APBA league, not in MLB

  16. #74
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    Re: 1. Choo 2. Votto 3. Phillips 4. Bruce ....... the time is NOW!!!!!!!

    Votto's approach so far this seaon is much more suited to the 2 hole.
    Talent is God Given: be humble.
    Fame is man given: be thankful.
    Conceit is self given: be careful.

    John Wooden

  17. #75
    .377 in 1905 CySeymour's Avatar
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    Re: 1. Choo 2. Votto 3. Phillips 4. Bruce ....... the time is NOW!!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by EMAW View Post
    Votto hitting 2nd? In an APBA league, not in MLB
    Why?
    ...the 2-2 to Woodsen and here it comes...and it is swung on and missed! And Tom Browning has pitched a perfect game! Twenty-seven outs in a row, and he is being mobbed by his teammates, just to the thirdbase side of the mound.


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