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Thread: This offense is pathetic!

  1. #16
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    Re: This offense is pathetic!

    Quote Originally Posted by armybrat45103 View Post
    Time to call the kettle black. How can anyone expect to visit the playoffs when you have 4 players batting over .240? C'mon. Toss in a lefty and we have 3! And you think we will be ok with that? Wake up call. It is not going to happen. Everyone thinks that Lud will be the 2nd coming in August but news! He is one man with a mountain of expectations on him coming off a serious injury. Mes, Hannigan, Hannahan, Cozart, Frazier, Izturis, Robinson, and Heisey CANNOT hit major league pitching. Choo can't hit left handed pitching. How are we to get anywhere with 3 guys, 2 if Bruce is in one of his famous slumps, capable of hitting on a daily basis? This is not a playoff team. Bring up Hamilton, Lutz, Winker, Soto, and H-Rod for experience. Send the rest packing because they are not going to take us to the WS! This mess is not on Baker. This team is like someone giving Tony Stewart a Ford pickup truck and tell him to go win Daytona with it. No people. This is on Jockerty alone!
    If you looked at the Giants offense at this point last year would you have "thought" yep a WS champ team there...?

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  3. #17
    CEO - Hal Morris Fanclub OC_Red's Avatar
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    Re: This offense is pathetic!

    Quote Originally Posted by Wedge View Post
    I don't know who should necessarily bat second. The main job for the #2 hitter needs to be getting Votto to the plate. Cozart can't do that. ...
    A lovely illustration of that was the last out of last night's game, made by Mr. Cozart...man on, 2-0 count...you would think you would be taking right? Nope...game over as Joey looks on from the on deck circle.

    I couldn't agree more about this. I like Cozy for what he is. A solid to good defender at short with a penchant for hacking at the plate which is not going to change. Someone else who isn't going to change would be Dusty, so immovable object doesn't really care about irresistible force.

  4. #18
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    Re: This offense is pathetic!

    Quote Originally Posted by gfas View Post
    the batting order is really not the issue

    for every analogy about a chef using the ingredients the right way, there's another one about rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic

    batting order is fun to complain about as fans, but it just doesn't have as much impact as so many people make it out to
    This article about sums up the way I feel about Dusty Baker.

    http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/how-s...batting-order/

    Bottom Line, Batting Order is not meaningless (not that you've said that), because an optimal batting order can yield 5-15 runs over a season (per sabremetric heads). Yes that is a small overall impact and at best maybe it might win a team a few more games over the season.

    I think Dusty ignores too much of these small things and in the end it adds up to losses of games and competitiveness. I firmly believe that if Cozart were toward the end of the order, his BA may not improve, but at least the Reds would string together hits better, which translates into runs.

  5. #19
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    Re: This offense is pathetic!

    I would love someone in the Reds press core just ask Dusty the following:

    1. Do you believe it's important to have your best hitters get the most AB's in a game?
    2. If so then why isn't the lineup geard to do that?
    3. If not then why not?

  6. #20
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    Re: This offense is pathetic!

    Quote Originally Posted by CySeymour View Post
    In a lot of ways, I think you are right. The single most important thing is having the best players on the field.

    But having Cozie hitting second all the time is really far from optimal.
    I think far from optimal is the best way to put it

  7. #21
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    Re: This offense is pathetic!

    No one panic...but Cozart is playing tonight and NOT hitting Second....

  8. #22
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    Re: This offense is pathetic!

    IMO, we have 4 starting players. Choo, Votto, Phillips, & Bruce. Everyone else, on most other teams would be a bench/part time player. You aren't going to win a championship with 9 bench/part time players. (Frazier, Cozart, Paul, Heisey, Izturis, Hannahan, Mesoraco, Robinson, Hanigan) These 9 aren't starters.

    Bottom line: We need better players.

  9. #23
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    Re: This offense is pathetic!

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Fan View Post
    No one panic...but Cozart is playing tonight and NOT hitting Second....
    Woah. Dusty must not be coaching!!

  10. #24
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    Re: This offense is pathetic!

    These kinds of debates remind me of guys in NFL forums arguing about play calling. The fact is you can have the most elegant lineup magic in the world...if the player doesn't execute it doesn't matter.

    Our guys aren't getting it done at the moment. And waving like a fool at a breaking ball has nothing to do with where you are in the lineup, really.
    "I had a cigar in my back pocket...I didn't wanna break it." - Bartholomew "Bump" Bailey

  11. #25
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    Re: This offense is pathetic!

    Quote Originally Posted by KYBatsFan View Post
    These kinds of debates remind me of guys in NFL forums arguing about play calling. The fact is you can have the most elegant lineup magic in the world...if the player doesn't execute it doesn't matter.

    Our guys aren't getting it done at the moment. And waving like a fool at a breaking ball has nothing to do with where you are in the lineup, really.
    While certainly not being able to execute is a problem, don't you think less than optimal strategy is as well?

    If you win games by stringing together hits, and scoring runs.... wouldn't you want a lineup that optimizes your ability to string together hits and score runs? Sure it might have little impact in single games.... but over a season a missed scoring opportunnity here and there.... along with not always optimally employing your bullpen.... to making questionable decisions when it comes to game time pitching substitutions (does anyone remember when Dusty should have double switched to keep chapman in for the 9th inning earlier in the season.... let PArtch give the game away instead)............. well it adds up....

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    remdog (07-13-2013)

  13. #26
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    Re: This offense is pathetic!

    I am thinking right now Walt could fill 2 holes pretty easily (maybe) Aoki would be a good leadoff moving Choo to second spot, and signing Michael Young to play 3rd (Since the rangers paid the huge part of his contract, we could rent MY for the rest of the year for about 3 mil, giving Frazier and his "long swing" a chance to work on some mechanics.

    These are the 2 glaring holes, this also allows cozart to hit 7th where we could "live" with his OPS. If you ask me I am not sold on Hamilton for the next few seasons so Aoki would be a perfect fit for this team as a cheap fill in until there is such a time.
    Bowled 9 300 games, semi-retired!

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    remdog (07-13-2013)

  15. #27
    ROSE TO THE HOF!!! KYBatsFan's Avatar
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    Re: This offense is pathetic!

    As if on cue:

    @Reds: 7/13 lineup: Heisey 7, Choo 8, Votto 3, @DatDudeBP 4, @JayABruce 9, @FlavaFraz21 5, Cozart 6, @Corky_Miller 2, Bailey RHP
    "I had a cigar in my back pocket...I didn't wanna break it." - Bartholomew "Bump" Bailey

  16. #28
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: This offense is pathetic!

    Quote Originally Posted by gfas View Post
    the batting order is really not the issue

    for every analogy about a chef using the ingredients the right way, there's another one about rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic

    batting order is fun to complain about as fans, but it just doesn't have as much impact as so many people make it out to
    I hate the chef analogy because it doesn't work.

    We could have two people and give them the exact same ingredients, but include more than you needed of each ingredient. One chef is going to do better than the other.

    Sure, the line up is going to have the same guys in it, but you want to use some guys more than others and you do that by batting them higher in the order. Some guys you want to use less than others. You do that by batting them lower in the order.

  17. #29
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    Re: This offense is pathetic!

    It's pretty simple to see why this offense struggles when only 4 guys can be counted on to hit.

  18. #30
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    Re: This offense is pathetic!

    Quote Originally Posted by xsteve1 View Post
    It's pretty simple to see why this offense struggles when only 4 guys can be counted on to hit.
    Actually they all are counted on to hit.. Just only happens 25% of the time. They are 4th in runs and RBIs in the NL.. So they don't have an issue scoring runs.. Just have an issue spreading out the scoring. They'll have one big game and then not match that one games run total for a week. This team has its inconsistancies and grant it; haven't found ways to correct them. Some blame this guy, some blame that guy. What good does that do? They need to be consistent.. pitching and hitting. Until then this team isn't going to reclaim any position within the division because the pesky Pirates and Cards just know how to win on nights the Reds win.. And sometimes on nights the Reds lose.


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