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Thread: Paul D - Small Sample

  1. #46
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: Paul D - Small Sample

    Quote Originally Posted by New York Red View Post
    The Phillips bashing on this site is mind-boggling.
    What Phillips bashing?

    Saying someone isn't Joey Votto isn't bashing someone.

    Putting a guy's stat line out there isn't bashing someone

    Please quote what you feel is a bash
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

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  3. #47
    Member hebroncougar's Avatar
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    Re: Paul D - Small Sample

    Quote Originally Posted by cincrazy View Post
    And the tradition of Cincinnati writers and hence, Cincinnati fans, totally undervaluing their best players continues. I thought it would end with Votto. How wrong I was.
    Was Sullivan like that? I was a youngster, but I remember him being with the Post and being ok.

  4. #48
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    Re: Paul D - Small Sample

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Well of course it won't if you keep coming into it and trying to paint your perceived slight as to why the damn thing was posted.
    No need to lose your cool, buddy. It's just baseball talk. Maybe since yours was the first Brandon bashing in the thread, you're a little defensive. No reason to be. My first post in this thread came after I read your second one. If that's how you compliment BP, I'd hate to see you critique him. He's starting in the all-star game, so somebody apparently thinks he's getting the job done. JV is my favorite player and one of my favorite Reds ever, but it seems he's the only current Red who can be complimented on this board without a lot of backlash.

    It's ironic that the same posters who criticize others for critiquing the team during game threads, are the same ones who are most guilty of criticizing individual players on ORG. Strange stuff.
    "I talked to an advance scout that told me if Joey Votto and Albert Pujols were on the same team he'd advise his team to do the unthinkable...pitch around Votto to get to Pujols." - Buster Olney, ESPN

  5. #49
    Member Kiko's Avatar
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    Re: Paul D - Small Sample

    I think PD should have given more reasons for why BP is deserving of the MVP than attacking Votto. This would have generated a more productive conversation. When BP was hit in the arm the Reds won that game but since then are 18-21. This also is the start of BP's hitting slump and the Reds'. In those 39 games the Reds have scored 3 runs or less in 19 of them winning only 5. For me, BP is the player the Reds can least afford to lose and I would give him the MVP for the first half even though he doesn't win the sabermetric battle. But, honestly, I think there are a number of players that could be first half MVP's - Votto, Choo, Bruce, heck even Leake.


    http://www.redreporter.com/2013/7/15...e-2B?ref=yahoo

  6. #50
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: Paul D - Small Sample

    I'm not sure how this is bashing Phillips. And I hate WOY with the power of a billion exploding suns.


    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Of course he's done good, he's averaging an ab with runners on every three ab's.. and it's almost always Votto.

    But no team has a MVP who has a sub .600 OPS for 45 days, unless he's a pitcher.

    Just weak stuff all around
    I was just joking about hating WOY. It's his no good brother I hate.
    Last edited by Raisor; 07-15-2013 at 09:33 PM.
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

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  8. #51
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: Paul D - Small Sample

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiko View Post
    I think PD should have given more reasons for why BP is deserving of the MVP than attacking Votto. This would have generated a more productive conversation. When BP was hit in the arm the Reds won that game but since then are 18-21. This also is the start of BP's hitting slump and the Reds'. In those 39 games the Reds have scored 3 runs or less in 19 of them winning only 5. For me, BP is the player the Reds can least afford to lose and I would give him the MVP for the first half even though he doesn't win the sabermetric battle. But, honestly, I think there are a number of players that could be first half MVP's - Votto, Choo, Bruce, heck even Leake.


    http://www.redreporter.com/2013/7/15...e-2B?ref=yahoo

    Your post is well argued, and I couldn't disagree more

    Here's my list in order:

    1 Votto
    2 Choo
    3 Leake
    4 Latos
    5 Bruce
    6 Phillips

    The good news is that 4 of those guys are on my fantasy team, The Jay Bruce Springsteens.
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

  9. #52
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Paul D - Small Sample

    Quote Originally Posted by New York Red View Post
    No need to lose your cool, buddy. It's just baseball talk. Maybe since yours was the first Brandon bashing in the thread, you're a little defensive. No reason to be. My first post in this thread came after I read your second one. If that's how you compliment BP, I'd hate to see you critique him. He's starting in the all-star game, so somebody apparently thinks he's getting the job done. JV is my favorite player and one of my favorite Reds ever, but it seems he's the only current Red who can be complimented on this board without a lot of backlash.

    It's ironic that the same posters who criticize others for critiquing the team during game threads, are the same ones who are most guilty of criticizing individual players on ORG. Strange stuff.
    Lose my cool?

    Come on man.

    BP is a quality player, he's an AS for the 1st time as a starter, congrats BP!!

    Now he's also a guy who has been doing poorly since June 1st and if noting that fact is "bashing" then sorry to pop your gossamer bubble because it's not, it's stating a fact... kinda like the one PD made in the article when he declared BP the winner of the PD MVP race.

    As of your take on what constitutes "irony" on redszone this evening have at it.

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  11. #53
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    Re: Paul D - Small Sample

    PD brings to mind my favorite poster I had as a kid (okay, besides the Farrah Fawcett) was one of a huge orangutan staring straight out who had the quote at the bottom "if I want your opinion, I'll beat it out of you!"

    Now don't take that as saying I actually am suggesting physical violence against PD or anyone else, but I'm not clicking on his article, and certainly not paying the Enquirer for their drivel.

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    Re: Paul D - Small Sample

    Ill admit to a little BP bashing. I love his attitude and his glove but a flukishly high batting average with RISP is the only thing separating him from being worthless at the plate this year. He's gotten an incredible amount of opportunities with 2 of the top OBP guys in the league hitting in front of him but how many guys behind him don't get opportunities because he make outs in such high volume?

    I hate criticizing BP but when I see someone saying a guy OPSing in the low .700s should be the teams MVP it makes my head spin to the point where I've got to vent.

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  14. #55
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    Re: Paul D - Small Sample

    Quote Originally Posted by Larkin Fan View Post
    Obviously, you've missed the entire point of this thread. Nobody has bashed Phillips.
    Ya, I thought this thread was bout bashing pauly D.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  15. #56
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    Re: Paul D - Small Sample

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Of course he's done good, he's averaging an ab with runners on every three ab's.. and it's almost always Votto.

    But no team has a MVP who has a sub .600 OPS for 45 days, unless he's a pitcher.

    Just weak stuff all around
    Joey Votto has 24% of his AB's w/RISP.
    Brandon Phillips has 28% of his AB's w/RISP.
    Brandon Phillips is OPSing 77 points higher than Votto w/ RISP.

    Brandon Phillips has 9% of his AB"s w/RISP and 2 outs.
    Joey Votto has 7% of his AB's w/RISP and 2 outs.
    Brandon Phillips is OPSing 228 points higher than Joey Votto in this situation.


    That's pretty damn impressive thus far. We know Joey's the better player, but IMO, this just depends on your definition of MVP again. Joey may he helping Brandon, but Brandon is hitting so ridiculously well w/ RISP, that he should be playing for STL. It's not Joey's fault that Cozart is a dud. It's not Joey's fault that Brandon is hitting out of his mind when runners are presenting themselves.

    I know the sabermetric guys think RBI's are overrated, but think about this for a second: Out of the Top 32 players in the NL in RBI's, Brandon Phillips is ranked 30th in OPS. (Soriano/Todd Frazier are behind him) Brandon is ranked 3rd. . .THIRD in RBI's and only Todd Frazier and Alfonso Soriano are hitting lower than him in the Top 32 players in RBI's!

    Phillips is cashing in when it counts at a higher rate than Votto. To me, that's a serious argument for MVP.

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  17. #57
    Member Kiko's Avatar
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    Re: Paul D - Small Sample

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    Your post is well argued, and I couldn't disagree more

    Here's my list in order:

    1 Votto
    2 Choo
    3 Leake
    4 Latos
    5 Bruce
    6 Phillips

    The good news is that 4 of those guys are on my fantasy team, The Jay Bruce Springsteens.
    That's cool. We can agree to disagree and I am only missing Latos on my fantasy team.

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  19. #58
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Paul D - Small Sample

    Quote Originally Posted by Todd Gack View Post
    Joey Votto has 24% of his AB's w/RISP.
    Brandon Phillips has 28% of his AB's w/RISP.
    Brandon Phillips is OPSing 77 points higher than Votto w/ RISP.

    Brandon Phillips has 9% of his AB"s w/RISP and 2 outs.
    Joey Votto has 7% of his AB's w/RISP and 2 outs.
    Brandon Phillips is OPSing 228 points higher than Joey Votto in this situation.


    That's pretty damn impressive thus far. We know Joey's the better player, but IMO, this just depends on your definition of MVP again. Joey may he helping Brandon, but Brandon is hitting so ridiculously well w/ RISP, that he should be playing for STL. It's not Joey's fault that Cozart is a dud. It's not Joey's fault that Brandon is hitting out of his mind when runners are presenting themselves.

    I know the sabermetric guys think RBI's are overrated, but think about this for a second: Out of the Top 32 players in the NL in RBI's, Brandon Phillips is ranked 30th in OPS. (Soriano/Todd Frazier are behind him) Brandon is ranked 3rd. . .THIRD in RBI's and only Todd Frazier and Alfonso Soriano are hitting lower than him in the Top 32 players in RBI's!

    Phillips is cashing in when it counts at a higher rate than Votto. To me, that's a serious argument for MVP.

    That's great, he's having a great year in less than 28% of his ab's, but i believe the name of the game is not making outs, that leads to runs.

    With no one on in 56 more ab's Brandon Phillips has a .200/.236/.335/.571 which means when no one is on and not making another out is the thing a batter has to do to "get it done" he's successful only 30% of the time meanwhile Votto makes an out only 49% of the time.

    So I ask, how is that "not getting it done"?

  20. #59
    Member cincrazy's Avatar
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    Re: Paul D - Small Sample

    Quote Originally Posted by hebroncougar View Post
    Was Sullivan like that? I was a youngster, but I remember him being with the Post and being ok.
    I was a youngster too at the time, so we should both ask someone else

    ps I like to think I still am a "youngster," but I suppose that's up for debate as I close in on 30.

  21. #60
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    Re: Paul D - Small Sample

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    That's great, he's having a great year in less than 28% of his ab's, but i believe the name of the game is not making outs, that leads to runs.

    With no one on in 56 more ab's Brandon Phillips has a .200/.236/.335/.571 which means when no one is on and not making another out is the thing a batter has to do to "get it done" he's successful only 30% of the time meanwhile Votto makes an out only 49% of the time.

    So I ask, how is that "not getting it done"?
    Votto gets it totally done. He is the MVP. Let's not lose sight of that as we aren't that far apart.

    But I have to ask are those 28% of AB's you speak of 28% of importance to BP's overall worth so far? Those are highly valuable at bats and Phillips has come through. I get your overall point and I agree. I just don't like brushing off (to an extent) Brandon's season with the statement "I suppose he's had a great year in just 28% of at bats"...there is more to it than that. Those 28% of AB's are of high leverage as they directly lead to runs when BP has a positive outcome.

    I think it is flukey how well he has performed with runners on but it happened so it counts to me.


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