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Thread: Paul D - Small Sample

  1. #61
    Please come again pedro's Avatar
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    Re: Paul D - Small Sample

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    I'm not sure how this is bashing Phillips. And I hate WOY with the power of a billion exploding suns.




    I was just joking about hating WOY. It's his no good brother I hate.
    Hey now. I still do read this stuff now and again.
    Get your nunchucks and the keys to your dad's car. I know where we can get a gun

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  4. #62
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Paul D - Small Sample

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    Votto gets it totally done. He is the MVP. Let's not lose sight of that as we aren't that far apart.

    But I have to ask are those 28% of AB's you speak of 28% of importance to BP's overall worth so far? Those are highly valuable at bats and Phillips has come through. I get your overall point and I agree. I just don't like brushing off (to an extent) Brandon's season with the statement "I suppose he's had a great year in just 28% of at bats"...there is more to it than that. Those 28% of AB's are of high leverage as they directly lead to runs when BP has a positive outcome.

    I think it is flukey how well he has performed with runners on but it happened so it counts to me.
    Look, his whole game is what makes one a MVP candidate correct? Great fielder, scores runs, etc... but so far the wart on his season is not producing with no runners on, which is the majority of his ab's.

    We can't point at that as being who he is, he's having a great season in 28% of his ab's. But we can't also say Joey Votto has less RBIs than Phillips therefore he's not having as good a season and then not at least point out what he does in the other ab's that doesn't find a runner on base.

    This is the classic Garrett Anderson is the best player on the Angels argument, and he's who stayed while Edmonds got dealt

  5. #63
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Paul D - Small Sample

    Quote Originally Posted by cincrazy View Post
    I was a youngster too at the time, so we should both ask someone else

    ps I like to think I still am a "youngster," but I suppose that's up for debate as I close in on 30.
    By the time Sulliven, Poz, Lancaster and crew at the Post were around they were just honing their craft on a daily that was interested in writing good baseball copy. Afternoon papers had more time for personality pieces and thus the writers were around more often. Back when Lawson was at the helm though it was a different story he was brutal at times and took some punches for his words

  6. #64
    Haunted by walks
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    Re: Paul D - Small Sample

    Votto leads the league in intentional walks. Considering who is hitting behind him, how does that play into the discussion?

  7. #65
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Paul D - Small Sample

    Quote Originally Posted by BCubb2003 View Post
    Votto leads the league in intentional walks. Considering who is hitting behind him, how does that play into the discussion?
    Tells me that no one is scared of Brandon Phillips.

  8. #66
    Member Wonderful Monds's Avatar
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    Re: Paul D - Small Sample

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Tells me that no one is scared of Brandon Phillips.
    Although apparently they should be (23% RBI% which is well above average)
    They don't think it be like it is, but it do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Schuler View Post
    He has also taught me that even when the Reds win it is important to focus on the fact that they could have lost.

  9. #67
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    Re: Paul D - Small Sample

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Look, his whole game is what makes one a MVP candidate correct? Great fielder, scores runs, etc... but so far the wart on his season is not producing with no runners on, which is the majority of his ab's.

    We can't point at that as being who he is, he's having a great season in 28% of his ab's. But we can't also say Joey Votto has less RBIs than Phillips therefore he's not having as good a season and then not at least point out what he does in the other ab's that doesn't find a runner on base.

    This is the classic Garrett Anderson is the best player on the Angels argument, and he's who stayed while Edmonds got dealt
    Or maybe we could just compliment two Reds players who are having really good seasons (neither are having MVP seasons). One is getting on base and scoring runs, while the other is driving him in when he gets on base, so why don't both get equal credit since both are equally contributing to those runs?

    I've seen the stats the entire first half where BP ranks in RBI, RISP w/2out RBI, go-ahead RBI, game-tying RBI, late game RBI, etc. He's been at or near the top of the league the whole time, despite the fact that wasn't even supposed to be his role entering the season. He hasn't just gotten it done, he's gotten it done when it mattered most.

    You can disagree all you want, but the fact is BP has been a savior with his RBI production in the four spot. I'd hate to think where we'd be in the division standings without his RBIs (and Bruce's).
    "I talked to an advance scout that told me if Joey Votto and Albert Pujols were on the same team he'd advise his team to do the unthinkable...pitch around Votto to get to Pujols." - Buster Olney, ESPN

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  11. #68
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    Re: Paul D - Small Sample

    It seems to me that BP is being argued as the Reds MVP because of one stat, RBI... If we aren't happy with Joey's production then how about Jay as the team's MVP? He leads the league in doubles, 5th in HRs, 5th in RBI, has an OPS 100 pts higher than BP, he's 9th in the league in hits, 2nd in XBH, and 3rd in total bases. I'd venture to say that BP has also had more RBI opportunities than Bruce which would be the reason he has more RBI. What would Jay's RBI total look like if he were hitting 4th with a .950 OPS guy in front of him instead of a .730 OPS guy?

    BP has been a huge part of this team's success and he will need to be going forward if this team expects to win big... And while I'm damn glad he's a Red, he is in no way shape or form the team's MVP. Joey's the MVP and everyone outside of the Cincy media (PDoc, Marty, Thom, Cowboy) know it.
    I know a lot of people are talking about his on-base percentage (.308 in 2008), but I like to think more in terms of him his in-scoring position percentage. - Our Beloved Manager

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  13. #69
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: Paul D - Small Sample

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Look, his whole game is what makes one a MVP candidate correct? Great fielder, scores runs, etc... but so far the wart on his season is not producing with no runners on, which is the majority of his ab's.

    We can't point at that as being who he is, he's having a great season in 28% of his ab's. But we can't also say Joey Votto has less RBIs than Phillips therefore he's not having as good a season and then not at least point out what he does in the other ab's that doesn't find a runner on base.

    This is the classic Garrett Anderson is the best player on the Angels argument, and he's who stayed while Edmonds got dealt
    In terms of the bolded point, I am not saying that at all.

    But what I am getting at, is the question of, are each of those 28% of at-bats equal in value to the other each of the other 72% of his at bats? I say no, so I think it is oversimplifying things to say well Brandon only does well in 28% of AB's. You are right, he has stunk at getting on base in his other 72%, but those are at-bats of less importance to me because they don't necessarily directly lead to runs with a positive outcome.

    To simplify, here is an either or scenario...would you rather have a guy OPS 1.000 with RISP and OPS .500 with the bases empty or the other way around? If I'm weighting at-bats, I'd rather a guy be more successful with RISP than not. Which BP has done, through what I believe, no skill of his own, but it counts.

    And hey, I totally get that lots of heavy lifting has already been done when BP comes to bat. But for some reason when the heavy lifting has been done for him, he is right near the top of the league in coming thru so far this year in terms of rate.

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  15. #70
    Member Wonderful Monds's Avatar
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    Re: Paul D - Small Sample

    Quote Originally Posted by Nasty_Boy View Post
    It seems to me that BP is being argued as the Reds MVP because of one stat, RBI... If we aren't happy with Joey's production then how about Jay as the team's MVP? He leads the league in doubles, 5th in HRs, 5th in RBI, has an OPS 100 pts higher than BP, he's 9th in the league in hits, 2nd in XBH, and 3rd in total bases. I'd venture to say that BP has also had more RBI opportunities than Bruce which would be the reason he has more RBI. What would Jay's RBI total look like if he were hitting 4th with a .950 OPS guy in front of him instead of a .730 OPS guy?

    BP has been a huge part of this team's success and he will need to be going forward if this team expects to win big... And while I'm damn glad he's a Red, he is in no way shape or form the team's MVP. Joey's the MVP and everyone outside of the Cincy media (PDoc, Marty, Thom, Cowboy) know it.
    Not true about Jay, at least in terms of RBIs, as he only has a 16% RBI% (roughly average)
    They don't think it be like it is, but it do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Schuler View Post
    He has also taught me that even when the Reds win it is important to focus on the fact that they could have lost.

  16. #71
    Bread Gloves Razor Shines's Avatar
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    Re: Paul D - Small Sample

    Quote Originally Posted by New York Red View Post
    No need to lose your cool, buddy. It's just baseball talk. Maybe since yours was the first Brandon bashing in the thread, you're a little defensive. No reason to be. My first post in this thread came after I read your second one. If that's how you compliment BP, I'd hate to see you critique him. He's starting in the all-star game, so somebody apparently thinks he's getting the job done. JV is my favorite player and one of my favorite Reds ever, but it seems he's the only current Red who can be complimented on this board without a lot of backlash.

    It's ironic that the same posters who criticize others for critiquing the team during game threads, are the same ones who are most guilty of criticizing individual players on ORG. Strange stuff.
    Hey I've seen this tactic before. I'm glad it's not reserved entirely for IU fans.

    Poster A makes a post

    Poster B makes horrible inaccurate statement/accusation about that post.

    Poster A comes back with actually that's not at all what my post said.

    Poster B, ever the charmer, drops the famous "no need to lose your cool, why are you being so defensive?"

    Makes me wish it was November already.
    Last edited by Razor Shines; 07-16-2013 at 02:02 AM.
    "three dimes, a one hundred dollar bill and and 87 ones..."

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  18. #72
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    Re: Paul D - Small Sample

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    That's great, he's having a great year in less than 28% of his ab's, but i believe the name of the game is not making outs, that leads to runs.

    With no one on in 56 more ab's Brandon Phillips has a .200/.236/.335/.571 which means when no one is on and not making another out is the thing a batter has to do to "get it done" he's successful only 30% of the time meanwhile Votto makes an out only 49% of the time.

    So I ask, how is that "not getting it done"?
    My argument isn't 'Votto isn't getting it done.' My argument is simply "Phillips is getting it done more, for now, better than Joey Votto, when the opportunity presents itself." That's it.

    Phillips has a 1.029 OPS w/RISP. That's insanely good. Will he continue to hit like that? Chances are likely no. Will Votto probably stay on his same course? More than likely than Brandon. To me, Paul D's argument is poor as he just gives Brandon's numbers without any relation to Joey's.

  19. #73
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: Paul D - Small Sample

    Quote Originally Posted by pedro View Post
    Hey now. I still do read this stuff now and again.
    Ha!
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

  20. #74
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: Paul D - Small Sample

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    BP averages .77 men on base per plate appearances
    Votto averages .56 men on base per plate appearance.

    In 350 plate appearances that's 71 more runners on base for Phillips to drive in over half a season.


    Point of reference: Miguel Caberera averages .70 men on base per plate appearance

    You're welcome
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

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  22. #75
    Making sense of it all Matt700wlw's Avatar
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    Re: Paul D - Small Sample

    Votto's numbers would be better if he had an actual 2 hitter in front of him and hasn't had to lead off an inning 90 times...

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