Turn Off Ads?
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 38

Thread: Watching Moneyball

  1. #1
    OlafTheBlack Dan's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Woodbridge, VA
    Posts
    2,627

    Watching Moneyball

    The very first part of Moneyball when it shows the A's losing to the Yankees in the 2001 playoffs made me realize that I do not miss the bulky hulks blasting it out of the park. I am really glad that MLB has taken steps to cut down on PEDs. Yes, the game isn't as active now as it was then, but I LIKE that. It brings the focus back to skill and execution. I don't know about others, but I appreciate that.
    Sabermetrics is this: A batter's goal is to extend the inning. Extend enough innings and you're going to score runs. Extend more innings than your opponent and you're going to score more runs than him.

    Forget the rain. It's never an official game until the Reds piss away a run between third base and home plate. - Bluegrass Redleg

  2. Likes:

    malcontent (07-17-2013), Number_Fourteen (07-18-2013), REDREAD (07-17-2013)

  3. Turn Off Ads?
  4. #2
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    35,238

    Re: Watching Moneyball

    PED's or not, it takes a whole lot of skill to even make decent contact with a baseball thrown by a professional pitcher. The skill and execution part were never missing from baseball.

  5. Likes:

    Razor Shines (07-16-2013), TSJ55 (07-16-2013)

  6. #3
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Louisville, KY
    Posts
    721

    Re: Watching Moneyball

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    PED's or not, it takes a whole lot of skill to even make decent contact with a baseball thrown by a professional pitcher. The skill and execution part were never missing from baseball.
    This is what was so mind blowing about Bonds IMO. He was thrown minimal pitches in which to hit, but when he did get one, he squared it up. Seems like he NEVER missed a mistake. Crazy good hitter.
    Everything that can be counted does not necessarily count; everything that counts cannot necessarily be counted.

    All the dishes rattle in the cupboards when the elephants arrive

  7. #4
    We Need Our Myths reds1869's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Overlooking GABP
    Posts
    4,464

    Re: Watching Moneyball

    Quote Originally Posted by TSJ55 View Post
    This is what was so mind blowing about Bonds IMO. He was thrown minimal pitches in which to hit, but when he did get one, he squared it up. Seems like he NEVER missed a mistake. Crazy good hitter.
    Bonds was the most incredible hitter I've ever seen. One of the saddest things about his association with PEDs is that many people can't appreciate how great he was. I watched him in Pittsburgh as a young player who clearly wasn't juicing yet; he was obviously a special talent. I've never seen his combination of plate discipline and bat skills.

  8. Likes:

    AtomicDumpling (07-17-2013), joshua (07-16-2013), Number_Fourteen (07-18-2013), RadfordVA (07-17-2013), Razor Shines (07-16-2013), RedEye (07-16-2013), reds44 (07-17-2013), Roy Tucker (07-17-2013), Tom Servo (07-16-2013), TSJ55 (07-16-2013)

  9. #5
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Cincinnati
    Posts
    4,068

    Re: Watching Moneyball

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    PED's or not, it takes a whole lot of skill to even make decent contact with a baseball thrown by a professional pitcher. The skill and execution part were never missing from baseball.
    Maybe not compared to average joes, but compared to non-juicers (or non freaks of nature/science), execution became much less important. The game was very different.

    I just remember how annoying Mark McGwire's HR's were that had a hang time of what seemed like 10 seconds because he hit a pop up to LF, that turned into a HR.

  10. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Cincinnati
    Posts
    4,068

    Re: Watching Moneyball

    Quote Originally Posted by reds1869 View Post
    One of the saddest things about his association with PEDs is that many people can't appreciate how great he was.
    This is the saddest part for me too, except not because people don't appreciate how good he was before PED's, but because Bonds used PED's in the first place. We could totally be enjoying him being one of the greatest ever, instead he was pretty much the greatest ever and enough of that was because PED's that people won't enjoy that (including myself).

    Had he stayed clean, and dominated, we'd be talking about how great he was instead of how big his head was (literally).

  11. Likes:

    LexRedsFan (07-17-2013)

  12. #7
    OlafTheBlack Dan's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Woodbridge, VA
    Posts
    2,627

    Re: Watching Moneyball

    Quote Originally Posted by TSJ55 View Post
    This is what was so mind blowing about Bonds IMO. He was thrown minimal pitches in which to hit, but when he did get one, he squared it up. Seems like he NEVER missed a mistake. Crazy good hitter.
    This game, I believe, is one of the most impressive hitting feats ever. Bonds took 5 swings in his 5 at bats. He fouled off one pitch, and hit 3 home runs and a double.

    I, too, wish he'd never sullied his career with PEDs. He wouldn't have broken Aaron's record but he still would be appreciated as one of the game's greatest ever players.
    Sabermetrics is this: A batter's goal is to extend the inning. Extend enough innings and you're going to score runs. Extend more innings than your opponent and you're going to score more runs than him.

    Forget the rain. It's never an official game until the Reds piss away a run between third base and home plate. - Bluegrass Redleg

  13. Likes:

    joshua (07-17-2013), TSJ55 (07-17-2013)

  14. #8
    OlafTheBlack Dan's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Woodbridge, VA
    Posts
    2,627

    Re: Watching Moneyball

    Quote Originally Posted by TOBTTReds View Post
    Maybe not compared to average joes, but compared to non-juicers (or non freaks of nature/science), execution became much less important. The game was very different.

    I just remember how annoying Mark McGwire's HR's were that had a hang time of what seemed like 10 seconds because he hit a pop up to LF, that turned into a HR.
    Exactly. When a routine fly ball can be turned into a HR, your execution doesn't have to be as exact. And there's more to baseball execution than just hitting. Fielding and throwing and running and decision making are there too. The game is boring when you're waiting for the 3-run HR.
    Sabermetrics is this: A batter's goal is to extend the inning. Extend enough innings and you're going to score runs. Extend more innings than your opponent and you're going to score more runs than him.

    Forget the rain. It's never an official game until the Reds piss away a run between third base and home plate. - Bluegrass Redleg

  15. #9
    Custodial Engineer Bob Sheed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    328

    Re: Watching Moneyball

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan View Post
    This game, I believe, is one of the most impressive hitting feats ever. Bonds took 5 swings in his 5 at bats. He fouled off one pitch, and hit 3 home runs and a double.

    I, too, wish he'd never sullied his career with PEDs. He wouldn't have broken Aaron's record but he still would be appreciated as one of the game's greatest ever players.
    Says he struck out, so it would have to be more than 5 pitches wouldn't it?
    "And why do false truths persist, getting passed down the decades as if they were fact? It comes back to the same point: People believe things that are wrong because, individually, people rarely investigate their own beliefs, particularly when what they believe makes sense intuitively. Even more so when those around them agree with them." -K.F.

  16. #10
    OlafTheBlack Dan's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Woodbridge, VA
    Posts
    2,627

    Re: Watching Moneyball

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Sheed View Post
    Says he struck out, so it would have to be more than 5 pitches wouldn't it?
    Five swings over however many pitches it was.
    Sabermetrics is this: A batter's goal is to extend the inning. Extend enough innings and you're going to score runs. Extend more innings than your opponent and you're going to score more runs than him.

    Forget the rain. It's never an official game until the Reds piss away a run between third base and home plate. - Bluegrass Redleg

  17. Likes:

    Bob Sheed (07-17-2013)

  18. #11
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    1,424

    Re: Watching Moneyball

    Quote Originally Posted by reds1869 View Post
    Bonds was the most incredible hitter I've ever seen. One of the saddest things about his association with PEDs is that many people can't appreciate how great he was. I watched him in Pittsburgh as a young player who clearly wasn't juicing yet; he was obviously a special talent. I've never seen his combination of plate discipline and bat skills.
    Surprisingly enough, I have never sat around enjoying the talent of cheating, a-holes in my entire life. Frankly, I think it's sad that people give guys like that any attention at all.

    Bum

  19. #12
    Worst Behavior. reds44's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    25,374

    Re: Watching Moneyball

    Watching Bonds in his steroid prime was absolutely glorious to watch. I don't care if the fact he was roided out of his mind ruined it for other people because I thought it was spactacular then and I still do.
    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    Let's face it, you mis-hit the bun with the mustard squirter, no one will really care.

  20. Likes:

    Razor Shines (07-17-2013), TSJ55 (07-17-2013)

  21. #13
    Newbie Rock of Truth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Toshi Station
    Posts
    147

    Re: Watching Moneyball

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44 View Post
    Watching Bonds in his steroid prime was absolutely glorious to watch. I don't care if the fact he was roided out of his mind ruined it for other people because I thought it was spactacular then and I still do.
    I used to think this way as well until this past Saturday. I was driving my 10 year old boy to a try-out. He asked me "Dad, at what age do you think people take steroids so they can hit home runs?" I immediately pulled the car over into the parking lot of a UDF and we had good talk. Names like Bonds and Sosa came up, so did the name Lyle Alzado. Simply stated, I told him Lyle Alzado died from steroids. We skipped the tryout and got a double dip cone. Shame on Bonds, Sosa and McGuire for leading my son to believe the only way he can be good is to juice.

  22. Likes:

    remdog (07-18-2013)

  23. #14
    Mon chou Choo vaticanplum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Pittsburgh
    Posts
    7,188

    Re: Watching Moneyball

    Quote Originally Posted by Rock of Truth View Post
    I used to think this way as well until this past Saturday. I was driving my 10 year old boy to a try-out. He asked me "Dad, at what age do you think people take steroids so they can hit home runs?" I immediately pulled the car over into the parking lot of a UDF and we had good talk. Names like Bonds and Sosa came up, so did the name Lyle Alzado. Simply stated, I told him Lyle Alzado died from steroids. We skipped the tryout and got a double dip cone. Shame on Bonds, Sosa and McGuire for leading my son to believe the only way he can be good is to juice.
    It's not just the big leaguers. Steroids run rampant at the lower levels of sports and especially among gym rats in suburbs all across the country -- young and middle-aged guys who do "just a bit" here and there to bulk up. With MLB's crackdown, and the casual attitude taken toward steroids among the masses, I'd say at this point that poses a much bigger danger to kids.
    There is no such thing as a pitching prospect.

  24. Likes:

    Razor Shines (07-17-2013)

  25. #15
    Member RadfordVA's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    917

    Re: Watching Moneyball

    Quote Originally Posted by Rock of Truth View Post
    I used to think this way as well until this past Saturday. I was driving my 10 year old boy to a try-out. He asked me "Dad, at what age do you think people take steroids so they can hit home runs?" I immediately pulled the car over into the parking lot of a UDF and we had good talk. Names like Bonds and Sosa came up, so did the name Lyle Alzado. Simply stated, I told him Lyle Alzado died from steroids. We skipped the tryout and got a double dip cone. Shame on Bonds, Sosa and McGuire for leading my son to believe the only way he can be good is to juice.

    Steroids are not a magical pill that makes someone strong. Those players still had to put in a lot of work to get things done at that level. The methods they chose just made it easier to get that work done sometimes. Explaining to sons that people have to weigh the consequences of their actions is a conversation that would have to take place regardless. If anything these players make for great examples. Yes those players achieved short term success but none seem to be thriving now compared to what could have been.

    My sons know all about Bonds and his accomplishments. When he asks me who the greatest hitter I have ever seen is I say Bonds, but he knows the rest of the story. So if you ask who he would want to be like he would probably say Griffey or Votto.

  26. Likes:

    Razor Shines (07-17-2013), RedEye (07-18-2013)


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25