Turn Off Ads?
Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 78

Thread: Trading "The Cuban Missile"

  1. #31
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    14,821

    Re: Trading "The Cuban Missile"

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    I have no problem trading Chapman, but not for spare parts that could be picked up off the waiver wire. He's an impact player. Reds need impact player(s) back for him.
    Joc Pederson is an impact player in CF and Onelki Garcia isn't a spare part. Pederson is top 100 prospect who was the Dodgers number 4 prospect. Garcia is the Dodgers number 7 prospect. Van Slyke is their number 16 prospect. Gordon was their number 1 prospect in 2010 and 2011, is still young and runs like the wind. None of these guys are guys you'd get off the waiver wire. Pederson would be the Reds opening day CF with potential to have a power, OBP and speed combo that we haven't seen around here since Reggie Sanders. Van Slyke would be the 4th OF with RH pop on the cheap, Gordon the UI and Garcia would be the upper level, power lefty bullpen prospect who could contribute in 2014 that the Reds don't have in their system and given the uncertainty of Marshall's status, is badly needed. Chapman is going to cost the Reds $10 Million or more next year between his arb award and his current deal converting to a bonus. The Reds really can't afford an established impact guy. Too many guys have big raises coming in 2014. Chapman, Latos, Bailey, Leake, Marshall, Broxton, Ludwig, Lecure, Parra, Simon, Bruce, Cueto, Phillips, Heisey and even Ondrusek are all guys who should get or have already negotiated raises. Even with Arroyo, Choo, Masset and Arredondo off the books and no one else brought in, the payroll is going up significantly. There won't be money to replace or re-sign Choo and I'd say Bailey or Chapman will need to be dealt with little or no money coming back to add bodies to fill holes.

    Chapman is going to be very expensive as relievers go. I think the market is limited with teams that can afford the luxury and the Reds really aren't one of them. The idea that the Reds could deal him for whatever they want is a Redszone delusion. The idea that the Reds can afford all these guys and replace Choo is another. They have in house replacements for Arroyo and they have some decent depth for the bullpen. The Reds need to retool with cheaper guys who can be productive players and dealing the one guy who can net 3 or 4 of them while having in house depth to replace him seems the way to go IMO.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #32
    Member 757690's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Dayton
    Posts
    10,542

    Re: Trading "The Cuban Missile"

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    Joc Pederson is an impact player in CF and Onelki Garcia isn't a spare part. Pederson is top 100 prospect who was the Dodgers number 4 prospect. Garcia is the Dodgers number 7 prospect. Van Slyke is their number 16 prospect. Gordon was their number 1 prospect in 2010 and 2011, is still young and runs like the wind. None of these guys are guys you'd get off the waiver wire. Pederson would be the Reds opening day CF with potential to have a power, OBP and speed combo that we haven't seen around here since Reggie Sanders. Van Slyke would be the 4th OF with RH pop on the cheap, Gordon the UI and Garcia would be the upper level, power lefty bullpen prospect who could contribute in 2014 that the Reds don't have in their system and given the uncertainty of Marshall's status, is badly needed.
    Hamilton is more advanced than Pederson and rated higher. Gordon has proven he can't hit MLB pitching. Van Slyke, even though he went to my high school, is a AAAA hitter with a slider speed bat. Know nothing about Garcia, which means he can't be that good, lol.

    I'm not trading one of the best young arms in baseball for a LOOGY, a AA prospect who barely cracks the top 100 and two guys who are more likely to be working at a hardware store in 2015 than they are playing in the bigs.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  4. #33
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    750

    Re: Trading "The Cuban Missile"

    No doubt Chapman is a unique player. The Reds are the only team in MLB that has a player who has thrown as hard as Chapman in a game. But, I would absolutely deal him for some offense next year. I'm beginning to fall into that category of those who believe there's enough capable arms in-house to fill the void as closer.

  5. #34
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Posts
    9,866

    Re: Trading "The Cuban Missile"

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    This particular deal is, of course, unlikely because it's impossible to predict this stuff, but the deal below is the type of deal the Reds need to make for Chapman IMO. Big dollar guys probably aren't realistic.

    Chapman and Chris Heisey to the Dodgers for Joc Pederson, Scott Van Slyke, Onelki Garcia and Dee Gordon.

    Dodgers add another big dollar star (and Chapman's dollars go way up next year). The Reds stick Pederson in CF with Hamilton in AAA continuing his development. Van Slyke takes Heisey's spot on the bench. Gordon becomes the UI who may provide some challenge to Cozart and adds a lot of speed off the bench at a minimum. Garcia adds a lefty who can help in 2014. Some of the savings goes to re-sign Parra. 2014 Pen

    Hoover CL
    Broxton
    Parra (L)
    Lecure
    Simon
    Marshall/Garcia (L)
    Partch

    Lorenzen makes an impact at some point and guys like Corcino, Crabbe, Rogers, etc, will be in AAA. Stephenson will be the 6th starter behind Latos, Bailey, Cueto, Leake and Cingrani. Carlos Contreras might be a sleeper to make in impact at some point in 2014 as well. IMO, this is clearly the depth area where the Reds can address the budget while filling holes at the same time.
    I'd simplify this: Chapman to the Dodgers for Joc Pederson and Corey Seager.
    Go BLUE!!!

  6. #35
    Member 757690's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Dayton
    Posts
    10,542

    Re: Trading "The Cuban Missile"

    Quote Originally Posted by Benihana View Post
    I'd simplify this: Chapman to the Dodgers for Joc Pederson and Corey Seager.
    I'll simplify it even more.

    Chapman and Hamilton for Puig
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  7. #36
    Member tomnuetten's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Freiburg (Germany)
    Posts
    1,218

    Re: Trading "The Cuban Missile"

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    I'll simplify it even more.

    Chapman and Hamilton for Puig
    the problem with this trade offer? dodgers wonŽt accept it...

    IŽm all for trading chapman and I donŽt think weŽll get that much back... heŽs expensive (for a small market team) and should (for the money he gets) start...

    the problem is, I doubt that heŽll be a good (even mediocre) startet in the mlb.. you canŽt throw 100 pitches and 100mph => velocity goes down

    he has sometimes problem to locate his slider and needs to work on another offspeed pitch... but I think the biggest problem will be his mental issueŽs...

  8. Likes:

    Old NDN (08-19-2013)

  9. #37
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    378

    Re: Trading "The Cuban Missile"

    Here is a brief chapman summary

    Entered game vs Phillies with 2-1 lead,, gave up two homeruns to garbage players

    Got no outs in a game with a one ruin lead vs Diamondbacks lost Mike Leakes 3 hitter

    Lost game vs Padres, lost 1-0 lead to home run by Denorfia

    Same lost lead to Brewers

    Four lost games with 5 ninth inning home runs

  10. #38
    .377 in 1905 CySeymour's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Carmel, IN
    Posts
    2,216

    Re: Trading "The Cuban Missile"

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    Chapman and Hamilton for Puig
    Why would the Dodgers even think about that trade?
    ...the 2-2 to Woodsen and here it comes...and it is swung on and missed! And Tom Browning has pitched a perfect game! Twenty-seven outs in a row, and he is being mobbed by his teammates, just to the thirdbase side of the mound.

  11. #39
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    378

    Re: Trading "The Cuban Missile"

    chapman has the same era as cordero, look at hoover's performance!!

  12. #40
    ROSE TO THE HOF!!! KYBatsFan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Louisville, KY USA
    Posts
    55

    Re: Trading "The Cuban Missile"

    Has anyone considered that Chapman may have been 'figured out' by MLB scouting? "Mental issues" aside, it seems like they have gotten better at timing his FB. I actually get uneasy when he comes in the game w/less than a three or four run lead. It reminds me of a QB who throws lots of INTs...it's in your mind every time he fared back and throws.
    "I had a cigar in my back pocket...I didn't wanna break it." - Bartholomew "Bump" Bailey

  13. #41
    Moderator RedlegJake's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    North Kansas City, Mo
    Posts
    5,813

    Re: Trading "The Cuban Missile"

    When Chapman mixes in his slider, when it has it's normal bite, and when he isn't at 94-95 but at 99-100+ I don't care if they have him figured out - they ain't hitting him. When he grooves a hundred mile an hour heater, or his slider doesn't break much, or he has been out there 5 days in 6 and he isn't sharp, or he is just not having his best stuff that night for whatever reason - it seems he doesn't have the mental toughness to fight through it. The one thing being a reliever has done is reinforce being a thrower. Chapman seems to live completely and purely on filthy stuff. Yet even the greatest pitchers in the game have nights when they just don't have it all and they pitch through it. Partly because he only has one inning and little time to adjust, and partly because I don't think he knows how to do it - Chapman doesn't fare well at all when he is a bit off.

  14. #42
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    750

    Re: Trading "The Cuban Missile"

    How many clean innings has he had lately? Seems like he's been giving up hits and/or BB's pretty often. I guess the end result is all that matters, but I could sure enjoy the games a lot better with some less stressful innings.

  15. #43
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    100

    Re: Trading "The Cuban Missile"

    Out of the 12 pitchers with at least 30 saves Chapman has the 4th best xFIP. I feel like Chapman is suffering a bit from what Votto suffers from, he was so good in the past that when he's just 'great' instead of 'unbelievable' people start to think he's not any good.


    His K/9 innings is very close to what it was last year (15.32 vs 14.96) but his BB/9 is up nearly a walk per 9. A 2.33 xFIP is still pretty freaking good (1.93 xFIP last year).

  16. Likes:

    REDREAD (08-22-2013)

  17. #44
    ROSE TO THE HOF!!! KYBatsFan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Louisville, KY USA
    Posts
    55

    Re: Trading "The Cuban Missile"

    Quote Originally Posted by SlimJim11 View Post
    Out of the 12 pitchers with at least 30 saves Chapman has the 4th best xFIP. I feel like Chapman is suffering a bit from what Votto suffers from, he was so good in the past that when he's just 'great' instead of 'unbelievable' people start to think he's not any good.
    Good take
    "I had a cigar in my back pocket...I didn't wanna break it." - Bartholomew "Bump" Bailey

  18. Likes:

    Old school 1983 (08-23-2013)

  19. #45
    Member 757690's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Dayton
    Posts
    10,542

    Re: Trading "The Cuban Missile"

    Quote Originally Posted by CySeymour View Post
    Why would the Dodgers even think about that trade?
    Chapman is extremely underrated, especially here on Redszone. He's one of the best arms in the majors, just about to reach his prime years.

    Puig is extremely overrated, and very unknown.

    Plus Dodgers need pitchers much more than they need hitters.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25