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Thread: BP on Votto's contract and hard feelings over his...

  1. #181
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: BP on Votto's contract and hard feelings over his...

    Everyone wants to be "in the know," then when someone bares their soul on an issue, they get lambasted for letting people be in the know. Has anyone heard of transparency?

    BP doesn't feel like the Reds were transparent in their negotiations, and if the Reds have integrity, they shouldn't mind one of their players making the Reds a transparent organization and let folks decide for themselves. There's two sides to every story, the Reds can tell their side or let it die on the vine. No trade secrets were divulged, just a player letting people know about some inner workings in the organization.

    Let him air his grievance. This is a business very much in the public interest, a little insight beyond the boxscore is good for a healthy organization to evaluate and improve themselves.
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  4. #182
    Hisssssssss Yachtzee's Avatar
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    Re: BP on Votto's contract and hard feelings over his...

    BP was just airing his grievances because he celebrates Festivus in July. He then pulled out an aliminum pole and challenged the interviewer to a wrestling match.
    Burn down the disco. Hang the blessed DJ. Because the music that he constantly plays, it says nothing to me about my life.

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  6. #183
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: BP on Votto's contract and hard feelings over his...

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    Everyone wants to be "in the know," then when someone bares their soul on an issue, they get lambasted for letting people be in the know. Has anyone heard of transparency?

    BP doesn't feel like the Reds were transparent in their negotiations, and if the Reds have integrity, they shouldn't mind one of their players making the Reds a transparent organization and let folks decide for themselves. There's two sides to every story, the Reds can tell their side or let it die on the vine. No trade secrets were divulged, just a player letting people know about some inner workings in the organization.

    Let him air his grievance. This is a business very much in the public interest, a little insight beyond the boxscore is good for a healthy organization to evaluate and improve themselves.
    The problem with Phillips "airing his grievance" is that it is a bunch of crap. Joey Votto signed his contract before Brandon Phillips did. Phillips, before he signed, knew that the Reds paid Joey Votto what they paid him. So the fact that they are paying Phillips what they are paying him then having him complain that they lied about how much money they had, then signed Votto for what they did just doesn't follow a realistic timeline.

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  8. #184
    Member NebraskaRed's Avatar
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    Re: BP on Votto's contract and hard feelings over his...

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    The problem with Phillips "airing his grievance" is that it is a bunch of crap. Joey Votto signed his contract before Brandon Phillips did. Phillips, before he signed, knew that the Reds paid Joey Votto what they paid him. So the fact that they are paying Phillips what they are paying him then having him complain that they lied about how much money they had, then signed Votto for what they did just doesn't follow a realistic timeline.
    I think Phillips must know this. He's a smart guy. But obviously he's an extremely egotistical guy, and ego can make you forget even things that are factually true like when someone signed a contract.

  9. #185
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: BP on Votto's contract and hard feelings over his...

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    The problem with Phillips "airing his grievance" is that it is a bunch of crap. Joey Votto signed his contract before Brandon Phillips did. Phillips, before he signed, knew that the Reds paid Joey Votto what they paid him. So the fact that they are paying Phillips what they are paying him then having him complain that they lied about how much money they had, then signed Votto for what they did just doesn't follow a realistic timeline.
    This just made my dizzy
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

  10. #186
    It's showtime! RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: BP on Votto's contract and hard feelings over his...

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    The problem with Phillips "airing his grievance" is that it is a bunch of crap. Joey Votto signed his contract before Brandon Phillips did. Phillips, before he signed, knew that the Reds paid Joey Votto what they paid him. So the fact that they are paying Phillips what they are paying him then having him complain that they lied about how much money they had, then signed Votto for what they did just doesn't follow a realistic timeline.
    I thought his point was only about what happened before Votto's deal, when he was told that the Reds couldn't afford him. Basically, he realized that the Reds did want to pay a franchise-type player big money -- just that the player wasn't him.
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

  11. #187
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    Re: BP on Votto's contract and hard feelings over his...

    Ahh makes remember the Rose era

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vau...66/2/index.htm

    Rose's serious contractual hassles with the Reds go back to 1975, when the club, according to Katz, forced Rose to take a salary cut after his batting average fell to .284 although he played in 163 games and led the league in doubles and runs. Wagner was named general manager in 1977 and promptly alienated Rose during a contract dispute that spring by taking out advertisements in two local newspapers detailing why the Reds were not meeting his demands. Rose eventually signed for a tidy $365,000 per year, but the ads left him bitter and embarrassed. "That wasn't something I was proud of," admits Wagner. "Pete is the only guy I know who uses the media to negotiate, and that's what we did. When no Cincinnati reporter would write our side of the story, we simply paid to have it told."

    If Wagner is concerned that his All-Star third baseman will pack up for greener pastures, he doesn't show it. Shortly after negotiations broke down on Oct. 12, he told Katz that the Reds' final offer was "off the table" and that the next move was Rose's. "When we made Pete that offer, we tried to take all his accomplishments into consideration," says Wagner. "But he wants to be the highest-paid player in the game. He told me that." Wagner does not think Rose is worth it.

    Counters Rose, "I've worked as hard as anybody in baseball for 16 years. I've been more consistent than anybody. I reached 3,000 hits faster than any guy in history. I really believe I've reached the top of my profession, and I want to be paid like it. You can agree with me or not, but I don't think you can say I should be the 15th-best-paid player."

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    Re: BP on Votto's contract and hard feelings over his...

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    I thought his point was only about what happened before Votto's deal, when he was told that the Reds couldn't afford him. Basically, he realized that the Reds did want to pay a franchise-type player big money -- just that the player wasn't him.
    This is how I understand BP's point as well. His main point is that the Reds didn't need to sequence things this way. By "using up" the Reds' money on Votto first, BP was left with the "scraps."

    And BP's point is that this was no proper reward for his loyalty. He wanted to stay. So by leaving him the post-Votto leftovers, the Reds were effectively punishing him for his loyalty.

    RedEye is exactly correct in saying that BP's real unhappiness is that the Reds prioritized Joey over him; but of course, the Reds found themselves with the unique opportunity to sign their franchise player (Votto) long-term and simply couldn't pass it up.

    I really understand BP's unhappiness over this, but he also seems to understand that he is well paid and appreciated. I agree with RedEye's take on this.

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  14. #189
    It's showtime! RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: BP on Votto's contract and hard feelings over his...

    Again, the more I think about this, the more I think "no harm, no foul, move on." BP is an honest guy. He was hurt, and he was a little too truthful about why. No big deal.

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  16. #190
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: BP on Votto's contract and hard feelings over his...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    This is how I understand BP's point as well. His main point is that the Reds didn't need to sequence things this way. By "using up" the Reds' money on Votto first, BP was left with the "scraps."

    And BP's point is that this was no proper reward for his loyalty. He wanted to stay. So by leaving him the post-Votto leftovers, the Reds were effectively punishing him for his loyalty.

    RedEye is exactly correct in saying that BP's real unhappiness is that the Reds prioritized Joey over him; but of course, the Reds found themselves with the unique opportunity to sign their franchise player (Votto) long-term and simply couldn't pass it up.

    I really understand BP's unhappiness over this, but he also seems to understand that he is well paid and appreciated. I agree with RedEye's take on this.
    The problem with this whole scenario is that Joey's money was earmarked for Joey no matter who signed first. Phillips got his fair share and the order wouldn't have changed anything. I get why he doesn't see it that way, but it's really how it is.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

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  17. #191
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    Re: BP on Votto's contract and hard feelings over his...

    Quote Originally Posted by forfreelin04 View Post


    BP has tied his RBI's from last year at 77

    Dude has an ego though! Who doesn't?
    Effective Lead Off hitter helps doesn't it?

    He's a little below his career average for your standard slash line, his fielding is still top ten.... it all adds up to a top ten 2nd baseman... but IMO not the top half.

    Don't get me wrong.... datdude is awesome and deserves all the recognition he gets.

  18. #192
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    Re: BP on Votto's contract and hard feelings over his...

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    The problem with Phillips "airing his grievance" is that it is a bunch of crap. Joey Votto signed his contract before Brandon Phillips did. Phillips, before he signed, knew that the Reds paid Joey Votto what they paid him. So the fact that they are paying Phillips what they are paying him then having him complain that they lied about how much money they had, then signed Votto for what they did just doesn't follow a realistic timeline.
    He was trying to negotiate his new contract before they signed Votto. That's when he was "lied to", allegedly.

    He then "sucked it up" and signed his new deal after Votto's...even though he felt he was "lied to" prior to Votto's and his new deal.

    Sorry for all the quotes, just letting you know those aren't my words.

  19. #193
    Future Fame of Holler WildcatFan's Avatar
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    Re: BP on Votto's contract and hard feelings over his...

    A multi-millionaire athlete is self centered?

    The horror.

    He believes he's the best. I should hope so. Votto has known Brandon for several years now, much more personally than any of us or that reporter has. That can be squashed with one trip to the locker and a "Hey, what the hell, man?" Or with a shake of the head and a smile, cuz, that's Brandon.
    "I never argue with people who say baseball is boring, because baseball is boring. And then, suddenly, it isn't. And that's what makes it great." - Joe Posnanski

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  21. #194
    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
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    Re: BP on Votto's contract and hard feelings over his...

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Ahh makes remember the Rose era

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vau...66/2/index.htm

    Rose eventually signed for a tidy $365,000 per year
    Boy, the times they have a changed. What's the average salary of a minor league player?
    "panic" only comes from having real expectations

  22. #195
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: BP on Votto's contract and hard feelings over his...

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    The problem with Phillips "airing his grievance" is that it is a bunch of crap. Joey Votto signed his contract before Brandon Phillips did. Phillips, before he signed, knew that the Reds paid Joey Votto what they paid him. So the fact that they are paying Phillips what they are paying him then having him complain that they lied about how much money they had, then signed Votto for what they did just doesn't follow a realistic timeline.
    BP entering last year, probably had some preliminary discussions, agent is told they can't do what he's asking. Votto gets big contract, apparently they "found" some money that wasn't available for BP, BP signs a FMV contract with some more "found" money, feels a bit snookered. That is the timeline I recall and that he seems to be speaking to here.

    You are picking it up as if nothing had occurred with BP prior to signing Votto, clearly he had been told "can't do what you're asking for your extension," then they went LTC with Votto for a megacontract.
    Can't win with 'em

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