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Thread: Braves Lineup

  1. 08-15-2013, 01:27 PM #1
    RedsManRick
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    Braves Lineup

    In our various discussions on Dusty's lineups, one defense has been that no/few managers follow the sabermetrically preferred approach.

    In light of that, I find the lineup the Braves have been using in recent wees pretty interesting:

    Code:
    				Career			2013
Pos	Name		Hand	AVG	OBP	SLG	AVG	OBP	SLG
CF/RF 	J. Heyward 	L	.260	.352	.442	.255	.351	.417
LF/RF 	J. Upton 	R	.277	.358	.477	.271	.363	.486	
1B 	F. Freeman 	L	.310	.389	.474	.280	.353	.456
C 	B. McCann	R	.279	.351	.477	.272	.351	.514
3B 	C. Johnson	R	.290	.329	.442	.337	.374	.480
2B	D. Uggla	R	.247	.340	.462	.186	.307	.389	
CF	B. Upton	R	.250	.330	.413	.188	.270	.304
SS	A. Simmons	R	.253	.297	.374	.240	.284	.360

C/LF	E. Gattis	R	.252	.311	.496	.252	.311	.496
    When Gattis plays, he tends to hit cleanup. The big takeaway of course is that Fredi Gonzalez has moved to a lineup that does not follow the traditional model of speed and bat control at the top.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.
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  3. 08-15-2013, 01:32 PM #2
    reds44
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    Re: Braves Lineup

    If the Reds had 6 hitters with .765 OPSes and above I would imagine the lineup would look better too.

    They have 3.
    Last edited by reds44; 08-15-2013 at 04:17 PM.
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  5. 08-15-2013, 01:40 PM #3
    swaisuc
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    Re: Braves Lineup

    Ironically, the Braves lineup change is one that will be used by both sides of the debate. For example, when Heyward was moved to leadoff, his season was junk and nobody was suggesting he be moved to the top. Now that he's leading off and hitting everything in sight, his stats look fine for leadoff.
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  7. 08-15-2013, 01:40 PM #4
    Brutus
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    Re: Braves Lineup

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44 View Post
    If the Reds had 6 hittings with .765 OPSes and above I would imagine the lineup would look better too.

    They have 3.
    Many times this. It's easy to have a nice looking "sabermetric" lineup when you have five guys with a significantly above-average OBP.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda
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  8. 08-15-2013, 02:22 PM #5
    RedsManRick
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    Re: Braves Lineup

    Again, while OBP is obviously a thing to look at, what is noticeable to me is having guys at #1 & #2 who strike out 120 times a year. Not that Gonzalez is swimming in bat control guys, but it is hardly common practice to bat a 30 HR guy 2nd.

    edit: Especially the way Chris Johnson is hitting, I imagine most managers would be batting him 2nd and using Upton in an "RBI" spot.
    Last edited by RedsManRick; 08-15-2013 at 02:34 PM.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.
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  10. 08-15-2013, 03:02 PM #6
    RadfordVA
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    Re: Braves Lineup

    He was doing it like every other manager till he was pretty much given no choice by his players. Simmons hit 1st or 2nd 77 times. BJ hit some there as well.

    Simmons has OBP of .284 and BJ has one of .270. Eventually he came to accept that. Quite similar with Reds situation. Both managers had in their head what they wanted but eventually gave up after their hands were forced by the players and Dusty put Frazier in 2 hole.

    The Braves lineup is unique because they have a lineup full of guys who are about the same player so no matter how you lined it up after Simmons got dropped it would look new and different.
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  11. 08-15-2013, 03:06 PM #7
    Brutus
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    Re: Braves Lineup

    Quote Originally Posted by RadfordVA View Post
    He was doing it like every other manager till he was pretty much given no choice by his players. Simmons hit 1st or 2nd 77 times. BJ hit some there as well.

    Simmons has OBP of .284 and BJ has one of .270. Eventually he came to accept that. Quite similar with Reds situation. Both managers had in their head what they wanted but eventually gave up after their hands were forced by the players and Dusty put Frazier in 2 hole.

    The Braves lineup is unique because they have a lineup full of guys who are about the same player so no matter how you lined it up after Simmons got dropped it would look new and different.
    Great point. I fail to see the difference. He wasn't getting production out of Simmons or B. Upton, so he made a change.

    Dusty wasn't getting production out of Cozart or Heisey, so he plugged in Frazier.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda
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  12. 08-15-2013, 03:53 PM #8
    RedFanAlways1966
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    Re: Braves Lineup

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44 View Post
    If the Reds had 6 hittings with .765 OPSes and above I would imagine the lineup would look better too.

    They have 3.
    Or played in a division with all records below .500 except for your own team.
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  13. 08-15-2013, 04:10 PM #9
    REDREAD
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    Re: Braves Lineup

    Actually, when the Braves signed BJ Upton, someone in the organization told the press that they intended to leverage his power as an RBI guy lower in the lineup (not a leadoff guy)
    His game logs verify that.
    BJ has started only 13 games at leadoff, and started 5 games at the #2 hole.
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