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Thread: What is Votto's Market Value?

  1. #16
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    Re: What is Votto's Market Value?

    "When the Reds decided to make that deal they knew they were keeping Joey, good or bad, for most of that time. They made him the core of the team for the next decade, and it's an almost irrevocable decision."

    OK RedLegJake. That's what you said. Now, me believing that the franchise would be doing itself a majoy favor by allowing the future Yankee (Sock/Angel/Dodger) to leave now........what makes you believe that "Tt's an almost irrevocable decision"?

    Now, putting his need to "Accept a trade" part of his balloon-sized contract aside. I mean sure, he would have to accept a trade, that is part of his deal. But, do you agree at this point that his contract is virtually unmovable? I often do feel this way, especially if we wanted any type of Top Prospects in return for him.

    Let me ask you, we're approaching the Trade Deadline here. What do you think the Reds could net for Joey right now? Or, would we just kinda have to accept trash in return vs. eating a large portion of his contract??

    Everybody.....Chime In !!!
    There's nothing to chime in on because the idea of the Reds trading their franchise player (and likely next HOFer) is preposterous. Thankfully, we'll never have to worry about it because the ownership group and those they've chosen to run the team would never even entertain the thought.

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  3. #17
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    Re: What is Votto's Market Value?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacman Fever View Post
    "When the Reds decided to make that deal they knew they were keeping Joey, good or bad, for most of that time. They made him the core of the team for the next decade, and it's an almost irrevocable decision."
    OK RedLegJake. That's what you said. Now, me believing that the franchise would be doing itself a majoy favor by allowing the future Yankee (Sock/Angel/Dodger) to leave now........what makes you believe that "Tt's an almost irrevocable decision"?

    Now, putting his need to "Accept a trade" part of his balloon-sized contract aside. I mean sure, he would have to accept a trade, that is part of his deal. But, do you agree at this point that his contract is virtually unmovable? I often do feel this way, especially if we wanted any type of Top Prospects in return for him.

    Let me ask you, we're approaching the Trade Deadline here. What do you think the Reds could net for Joey right now? Or, would we just kinda have to accept trash in return vs. eating a large portion of his contract??

    Everybody.....Chime In !!![/QUOTE]

    Partly irrevocable because of the money and years...partly because of fan reaction to a move, at least early in the deal's years. And no, I think the Reds would get a good prospect or two for Joey. Just not a kings ransom. Too much contract risk because of the length more than dollars. I don't think they would get several prospects though. In the end, the best move is not moving him at all, hoping they can negotiate some salary deferral in the later years, and finding appropriate players to keep around him.

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  5. #18
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    Re: What is Votto's Market Value?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mechanic#10 View Post
    You have all the rediculious contract now do
    To the steroid era and none of these guys or any
    Other guys in the next 5 yrs will live up to it because
    It's based on these big numbers and steroid use!
    I got so tired of hearing Griffey is hurt all the time and
    Arod, bonds, Sosa, are just awesome from the so called EXPERTS
    on ESPN. Truth is your body breaks down and u got to cheat on
    The fastball so the days of the 37 yr old hitting 330 avg, 49Hr, 155 RBI
    Are gone.
    Dude, haiku's are 5, 7 and 5 not 12, 14, 15, 12, 16, 16, 19, 34, and 2

    Its like the worst haiku ever
    "I came here to kick ass and chew bubble gum... and I'm all out of bubble gum."
    - - Rowdy Roddy Piper

    "It takes a big man to admit when he is wrong. I am not a big man"
    - - Fletch

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    KYRedLeg (07-27-2013), Raisor (07-22-2013), RedEye (07-23-2013)

  7. #19
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: What is Votto's Market Value?

    What can we figure, Votto is making 20 Million or so a year on average?

    That being the case, he has out-performed that over the past few years. You can argue this a bit, but for the most part, 1 WAR = 5 Million a year fair market value. So the Reds, assuming they were not going to let him walk after this year, have banked value.

    Hypothetically speaking (It is ludicrous to suggest the possibility in real life) if the Reds wanted to trade Votto, they could get rid of him today to some team, somewhere without having to pay any portion of his contract. I am very confident about that.

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    RedEye (07-23-2013)

  9. #20
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    Re: What is Votto's Market Value?

    Quote Originally Posted by Larkin Fan View Post
    There's nothing to chime in on because the idea of the Reds trading their franchise player (and likely next HOFer) is preposterous. Thankfully, we'll never have to worry about it because the ownership group and those they've chosen to run the team would never even entertain the thought.
    So far (and I've been watching ever since 1990).........Joey looks like Fred MrGriff in his good years/Sean Casey in his "bad" years......and possibly Hal Morris in the next few years (because his power seems to be depreciating).....What about that shouts out to YOU "Hall of Fame/MVP/Franchise Player" ???????
    Last edited by Pacman Fever; 07-22-2013 at 07:03 PM.
    Hitler finds out the Royals signed Jonathan Broxton: http://www.yourepeat.com/watch/?v=hB...=youtube_gdata

  10. #21
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    Re: What is Votto's Market Value?

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    What can we figure, Votto is making 20 Million or so a year on average?

    That being the case, he has out-performed that over the past few years. You can argue this a bit, but for the most part, 1 WAR = 5 Million a year fair market value. So the Reds, assuming they were not going to let him walk after this year, have banked value.

    Hypothetically speaking (It is ludicrous to suggest the possibility in real life) if the Reds wanted to trade Votto, they could get rid of him today to some team, somewhere without having to pay any portion of his contract. I am very confident about that.
    Hey Kal

    Your point is that we could unload his contract on a big $ team. OK, I wil accept that TODAY!!

    But, with that in mind, do you believe that we would actually get the $ off our backs + some High End Prospects in return??
    Hitler finds out the Royals signed Jonathan Broxton: http://www.yourepeat.com/watch/?v=hB...=youtube_gdata

  11. #22
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    Re: What is Votto's Market Value?

    2013 League Ranks:
    • 7th in NL in BA (.317)
    • 3rd in NL in R (68)
    • 1st in NL in BB (75)
    • 4th in NL in OPS (.935)
    • 1st in NL in OBP (.435)
    • 11th in NL in SLG (.500)
    • 13th in NL in HR (15)
    • 6th in NL in WAR (4.5)
    • 2nd in NL in RC (79.1)
    http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/batting...ric/order/true


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    dubc47834 (07-22-2013), Larkin Fan (07-22-2013), RedEye (07-23-2013)

  13. #23
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    Re: What is Votto's Market Value?

    Quote Originally Posted by KYBatsFan View Post
    He's fine. Teams are still pitching "around" him (not just intentional walks). I just wish he'd bat a little better w/RISP or in "the clutch". Time will tell.
    This is exactly what they are doing. That's why BP has the amount of RBI's he has. Votto is the only legit .300+ hitter in our lineup. Pitchers know after Votto, everyone else is a .265 or lower hitter, and much better chances to get outs. And 3/4 of the time, they're right. So why would you pitch to Votto?

  14. #24
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    Re: What is Votto's Market Value?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacman Fever View Post
    So far (and I've been watching ever since 1990).........Joey looks like Fred MrGriff in his good years/Sean Casey in his "bad" years......and possibly Hal Morris in the next few years (because his power seems to be depreciating).....What about that shouts out to YOU "Hall of Fame/MVP/Franchise Player" ???????
    You get a legit #4 hitter behind Votto and watch him take off. No one is afraid to pitch to BP or Jay Bruce. Yeah, if they make a mistake, they will pay, but they're much easier to get out than Votto.

  15. #25
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    Re: What is Votto's Market Value?

    Quote Originally Posted by 40YrRedsFan View Post
    You get a legit #4 hitter behind Votto and watch him take off. No one is afraid to pitch to BP or Jay Bruce. Yeah, if they make a mistake, they will pay, but they're much easier to get out than Votto.
    Just get Miguel Cabrera, then Votto will be awesome!

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    Pacman Fever (07-22-2013)

  17. #26
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    Re: What is Votto's Market Value?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacman Fever View Post
    Hey Kal

    Your point is that we could unload his contract on a big $ team. OK, I wil accept that TODAY!!

    But, with that in mind, do you believe that we would actually get the $ off our backs + some High End Prospects in return??
    In all honesty, probably not.

    I will say this. I admire your take in terms of the contract. No wishy washyness.

    I think it was all gonna boil down to this...the Reds could sign him to that monster deal or let him walk. And I give the deal a 50/50 shot at working out for the Reds. But I was and am in favor of that choice (the extension) being made.

    For such a big contract and with a small margin of error...I am suprised more on here haven't said they should have let him walk. Many have remarked the contract was too much, but few have said let him walk away.

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    Pacman Fever (07-22-2013)

  19. #27
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    Re: What is Votto's Market Value?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedlegJake View Post
    I can listen to arguments that the deal is an albatross waiting for the final 3-4 years, but right now and for the next few seasons I believe JV is earning every penny.
    My worry is that the last 5 years is the balloon portion of the contract. 25 mil per year. The next two years are so club friendly in terms of structure, that the reds might even be able to extend Arb eligible player, extend or buy a few new ones, and make a legit run at the world series.... Meaning taking the division by storm. The last five years he represents 22% of the payroll. Now he might turn out to be a total freak like Beltran and put together amazing HOF worthy seasons after 35, but history has told us those are risky bets, especially for a club with cost controlled payroll. I want Votto to hit like he has until he is an old man......but that doesn't stop me from worrying.

  20. #28
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    Re: What is Votto's Market Value?

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    In all honesty, probably not.

    I will say this. I admire your take in terms of the contract. No wishy washyness.

    I think it was all gonna boil down to this...the Reds could sign him to that monster deal or let him walk. And I give the deal a 50/50 shot at working out for the Reds. But I was and am in favor of that choice (the extension) being made.

    For such a big contract and with a small margin of error...I am suprised more on here haven't said they should have let him walk. Many have remarked the contract was too much, but few have said let him walk away.
    I think Votto will be worth every bit of his 17 mil this year, 12 mil next, 14 mil after that...l where I start to question is the 25mil starting 2018.

    I truly am baffled that clubs still go for the 10 year deals.

  21. #29
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    Re: What is Votto's Market Value?

    Quote Originally Posted by SporkLover View Post
    I've been saying for a while that a Votto contract in a ball club like the Reds is risky business. In 6 years when he is not playing like a top payroll kind of guy the Reds had better have a GREAT farm system to back them up because they won't be able to buy top talent to replace him.
    In 3 years the club will sign a new media rights deal and have a lot more revenue

  22. #30
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: What is Votto's Market Value?

    Quote Originally Posted by SporkLover View Post
    I think Votto will be worth every bit of his 17 mil this year, 12 mil next, 14 mil after that...l where I start to question is the 25mil starting 2018.

    I truly am baffled that clubs still go for the 10 year deals.
    That's fair. But given the choice between this contract and letting him walk.....?


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