Brian Kenny crushing Dusty on Twitter

[Blitz Dorsey]

You don't think it's possble heavy saber thinking people have an agenda against somebody who is anti-saber?

Seems like a perfectly logical explanation to me.

So, a vast majority of people who do this for a living believe our manager ignores statistical analysis. And while other managers might not be sabr-friendly, our manager is by far the worst.

And Reds fans are OK with this?

I've tried to like Dusty. But I have to admit I can't take much more of it. And I can't imagine all these people are wrong about him. I think a lot of us were in/still are in denial about it. These aren't Cardinal fans saying our manager sucks just to give us a hard time. These are professional journalists staking their reputations to the idea that Dusty sucks.

[EMAW]

Dusty isn't the only unpopular or ineffective worker to ever get rehired. Happens every day.

Ineffective?
As in winning baseball games?
Most owners enjoy doing that so they draw more fans and make more money

[Blitz Dorsey]

Ineffective?
As in winning baseball games?
Most owners enjoy doing that so they draw more fans and make more money

Yeah, I bet with this awful roster, a guy like Joe Maddon would have us at about 45 wins right now. Thank god Dusty has been able to work his magic, especially with this joke of a starting rotation we have. [Sarcasm off.]

[reds44]

This conversation is awesome. It's built off the idea that a guy who is in his 20th year of managing a MLB team is "disliked" by "everybody."

That is just awesome to me. He's disliked by so many people he's been managing for 2 decades.

[Blitz Dorsey]

This conversation is awesome. It's built off the idea that a guy who is in his 20th year of managing a MLB team is "disliked" by "everybody."

That is just awesome to me. He's disliked by so many people he's been managing for 2 decades.

I'm glad while you were never in college you didn't have to experience a professor who was just there because they had "tenure." Surely longevity = competence, right?

Fidel Castro took over Cuba in 1959. How's all that working out? (Technically, he's not in charge any longer. That's his younger brother. It's a family tradition!)

[reds44]

Yes, comparing a dictator to a baseball manager hired by 3 different organizations is an awesome comparison.

He's a manager who has been managing for 20 years and he has won more games than he's lost.

He is terrible. Brian Kenny speaks for everyone.

[reds44]

So, a vast majority of people who do this for a living believe our manager ignores statistical analysis. And while other managers might not be sabr-friendly, our manager is by far the worst.

And Reds fans are OK with this?

I've tried to like Dusty. But I have to admit I can't take much more of it. And I can't imagine all these people are wrong about him. I think a lot of us were in/still are in denial about it. These aren't Cardinal fans saying our manager sucks just to give us a hard time. These are professional journalists staking their reputations to the idea that Dusty sucks.

Just so we're clear on this, Brian Kenny isn't paid off his ability to do anything but get ratings. That is literally his job. His employed by the same company who employs Harold Reynolds, who is probably even more anti-saber than Dusty is.

[Always Red]

So, a vast majority of people who do this for a living believe our manager ignores statistical analysis. And while other managers might not be sabr-friendly, our manager is by far the worst.

And Reds fans are OK with this?

I disagree with your premise- I'd like to see a ranking of current MLB managers, from most sabr-friendly to least.

Also, Dusty, or any other MLB manager, really doesn't have to know or understand sabermetrics, because sabermetrics is a part of the advanced scouting books that each team has on another prior to a series. Defensive positioning, who hits better off which pitcher, which pitch to throw in which situation, spray charts, etc, etc. Sabermetrics is a tool that is used to make scouting more effective, and is used hand in hand with good old fashioned eyes on scouting to come up with grand plans.

Just because any manager is not a member in standing of the SABR Society means nothing. They can't escape modern statistics, all the FO's and scouting departments use them. The Reds have a SABR guy on staff for this very purpose.

[Blitz Dorsey]

Ah, I was just using Fidel Castro as levity.

If you want a true parallel, my example of a college prof with "tenure" should do the trick for you. The point of the matter is longevity does not equate to competence.

The NBA is also a good example. How many horrible re-tread coaches do we see in that league like Mike D'Antoni? So many I lose count.

[reds44]

There are also a lot of terrible new coaches hired every year.

The Reds have a guy who has been in the majors for 20 years and has been more succesful than not.

The solution? Fire him and dip into the pool where the majority of options suck.

Great plan.

[Blitz Dorsey]

There are also a lot of terrible new coaches hired every year.

The Reds have a guy who has been in the majors for 20 years and has been more succesful than not.

The solution? Fire him and dip into the pool where the majority of options suck.

Great plan.

The option of Bryan Price sucks? Many believe he is a sure-fire manager down the line. Why not here? Why not now (in 2014)?

Not following your logic unless you are saying the Reds couldn't possibly find someone better than Dusty Baker. You're not really asserting that, are you?

[RedEye]

Ineffective?
As in winning baseball games?
Most owners enjoy doing that so they draw more fans and make more money

I realize that. I was responding to the poster who asked why Dusty was rehired if he was disliked.

As far as winning, his record for longevity so far outstrips his success at winning games. He's had the good luck of managing some very talented ball clubs and done a decent job with them -- at least in some seasons. He's definitely not a world beater though, and not above criticism just because he's won a few games.

[IslandRed]

I disagree with your premise- I'd like to see a ranking of current MLB managers, from most sabr-friendly to least.

That's how I see it. Other than the blind spot regarding the two-hole hitter, there's little if anything Dusty is currently doing wrong that most other managers aren't guilty of. Few if any have optimized batting orders. Nobody uses the bullpen the way sabermetricians guys think teams should. Etc.

Basically, it's laziness. (I'm referring to the larger baseball community here, not RedsZone posters!) He's the easy target because he's always been the easy target, dating back to his goofy soundbites at the height of the Great Moneyball War. It's like a rite of initiation for anyone who wants to be accepted by the stats crowd. Heck, any time the Reds acquire a pitcher you still hear the "great, Dusty's going to ruin him too" comments, and the Reds have had one of baseball's healthiest pitching staffs during his tenure. Like I said, laziness. Memes carried forward by rote.

Not saying he doesn't deserve criticism, mind you. Just that the frequency with which Dusty is chosen as the pinata is out of proportion to the extent he deserves it.

[Todd Gack]

The option of Bryan Price sucks? Many believe he is a sure-fire manager down the line. Why not here? Why not now (in 2014)?

Not following your logic unless you are saying the Reds couldn't possibly find someone better than Dusty Baker. You're not really asserting that, are you?

Is Bryan Price a saber guy?

[RedEye]

Is Bryan Price a saber guy?

Here's the thing -- you don't have to be a "saber guy" to understand you want to give your best hitters more AB's if you can. This isn't higher math at all. From what I've seen of him, Price seems like a logical guy. Who knows whether he'll be that way in filling out his lineups.