Brian Kenny crushing Dusty on Twitter

[westofyou]

Really we should just have a Brian Kenny appreciation page, the guy obviously knows so much more about baseball. It's lame when anyone does not agree with your bashing of the manager. You guys HATE and I mean HATE Dusty Baker and would rather lose 100 games with a different manager than win 100 with a guy you HATE so strongly. Brain Kenny is your prophet, the man that will lead the Baker HATERS to the promised land of SABR utopia. Amazing bunch of Baker HATERS!

Nice broad brush you have there, paint with it much?

[EMAW]

Nice broad brush you have there, paint with it much?

No just quick typing when the stupidity of people gets the best of me, carry on the hate fest Baker HATERS

[dougdirt]

Really we should just have a Brian Kenny appreciation page, the guy obviously knows so much more about baseball. It's lame when anyone does not agree with your bashing of the manager. You guys HATE and I mean HATE Dusty Baker and would rather lose 100 games with a different manager than win 100 with a guy you HATE so strongly. Brain Kenny is your prophet, the man that will lead the Baker HATERS to the promised land of SABR utopia. Amazing bunch of Baker HATERS!

This post is awesome on so many levels.

Brian Kenny rules. But he is hardly the first sabermetrically friendly guy out there.

I don't hate Dusty Baker. He seems like an outstanding person. I do think he is a poor manager though. But there is a world of difference between hating someone and thinking they aren't good at their job.

I would rather the Reds win 100 games with any manager than lose 100 with any manager, assuming those 100 wins don't lead to injuries to players because of poor managing (and no, I am not saying Dusty is currently doing anything of the sort, just laying out the way I would be against that 100 win season) to the cost of winning so much.

[Strikes Out Looking]

This post is awesome on so many levels.

Brian Kenny rules. But he is hardly the first sabermetrically friendly guy out there.

I don't hate Dusty Baker. He seems like an outstanding person. I do think he is a poor manager though. But there is a world of difference between hating someone and thinking they aren't good at their job.

I would rather the Reds win 100 games with any manager than lose 100 with any manager, assuming those 100 wins don't lead to injuries to players because of poor managing (and no, I am not saying Dusty is currently doing anything of the sort, just laying out the way I would be against that 100 win season) to the cost of winning so much.

I agree with this except I'd say Dusty is a poor in-game manager. As an overall manager of personnel he's pretty good.

[westofyou]

No just quick typing when the stupidity of people gets the best of me, carry on the hate fest Baker HATERS

I don't hate Dusty, I have long history with him myself.

[EMAW]

Obviously a poor manager, having won the 17th most games in the history of major league baseball. I wonder if Brian Kenny would be available to take over?

[Wonderful Monds]

Really we should just have a Brian Kenny appreciation page, the guy obviously knows so much more about baseball. It's lame when anyone does not agree with your bashing of the manager. You guys HATE and I mean HATE Dusty Baker and would rather lose 100 games with a different manager than win 100 with a guy you HATE so strongly. Brain Kenny is your prophet, the man that will lead the Baker HATERS to the promised land of SABR utopia. Amazing bunch of Baker HATERS!

Can you actually read?

[757690]

Who is Brian Kenny?

Brian Kenny is a television character on a soap opera on MLB Network called, "As The Stats Turn." This scripted, predictable melodrama, creates a phoney world in which there is a fierce battle between two warring factions; the stat guys and the ball players. In this world the two factions never agree on anything, and usually end debates calling each other poopyheads. Harold Reynolds is miscast as his nemesis.

[dougdirt]

Obviously a poor manager, having won the 17th most games in the history of major league baseball. I wonder if Brian Kenny would be available to take over?

Joe Torre didn't have a winning season over his first 6 seasons as a manager with a combined record of 286-420. He went 257-229 the next three seasons. Did he become a better manager? Or was it because he switched organizations?

Weird that he then moved to another organization for 6 years and finished under .500 there too.

Then he moved on to the Yankees where he won 90+ games in 11 of 12 seasons. Did he figure something out as a manger or did he find a place with a lot of talent?

Why did he win 84, 95 and 80 games in three years after he left the Yankees? Did he forget how to manage in the bookend years?

Or is this whole win loss thing for managers directly tied to the amount of talent you have on the field?

[Wonderful Monds]

Brian Kenny is a television character on a soap opera on MLB Network called, "As The Stats Turn." This scripted, predictable melodrama, creates a phoney world in which there is a fierce battle between two warring factions; the stat guys and the ball players. In this world the two factions never agree on anything, and usually end debates calling each other poopyheads. Harold Reynolds is miscast as his nemesis.

He also voices the cartoon character Spongebob Squarepants on the side.

[NebraskaRed]

Really we should just have a Brian Kenny appreciation page, the guy obviously knows so much more about baseball. It's lame when anyone does not agree with your bashing of the manager. You guys HATE and I mean HATE Dusty Baker and would rather lose 100 games with a different manager than win 100 with a guy you HATE so strongly. Brain Kenny is your prophet, the man that will lead the Baker HATERS to the promised land of SABR utopia. Amazing bunch of Baker HATERS!

[reds44]

This is what I don't get about the Dusty situation.

He's 1636-1475 as a manager. As a Reds manager, he's 474-434. He's managed some really talented teams, absolutely. But what is there to bash him for? He's been successful more than he's not. Does he have his flaws? Absolutely. Does every manager have his flaws? Absolutely.

He's great in the clubhouse, and he suffers a bit in game. In game is more visible than in the clubhouse.

However, when you look at his record over the years the good as outweighed the bad. And if you want to say it's because of the players he's had, why are we even bothering to argue this? The players win games.

Dusty gets none of the credit and all of the blame. I understand almost every manager does, but with him it's more so than most. I don't get why.

He's fine. He's not the best, he's not the worst.

[reds44]

It's a real shame that this thread has been downgraded to people calling Kenny names. He knows what he's talking about when it comes to advanced stats. Disagree with him, but he's not an idiot.

[dougdirt]

This is what I don't get about the Dusty situation.

He's 1636-1475 as a manager. As a Reds manager, he's 474-434. He's managed some really talented teams, absolutely. But what is there to bash him for? He's been successful more than he's not. Does he have his flaws? Absolutely. Does every manager have his flaws? Absolutely.

He's great in the clubhouse, and he suffers a bit in game. In game is more visible than in the clubhouse.

However, when you look at his record over the years the good as outweighed the bad. And if you want to say it's because of the players he's had, why are we even bothering to argue this? The players win games.

Dusty gets none of the credit and all of the blame. I understand almost every manager does, but with him it's more so than most. I don't get why.

He's fine. He's not the best, he's not the worst.

Well, there is the problem. You look at a team record think it reflects the manager. I don't.

As to why argue about it? Because while I think a manager has a minimal effect on the team record, I still want someone who is making better decisions.

[Hoosier Red]

Joe Torre didn't have a winning season over his first 6 seasons as a manager with a combined record of 286-420. He went 257-229 the next three seasons. Did he become a better manager? Or was it because he switched organizations?

Weird that he then moved to another organization for 6 years and finished under .500 there too.

Then he moved on to the Yankees where he won 90+ games in 11 of 12 seasons. Did he figure something out as a manger or did he find a place with a lot of talent?

Why did he win 84, 95 and 80 games in three years after he left the Yankees? Did he forget how to manage in the bookend years?

Or is this whole win loss thing for managers directly tied to the amount of talent you have on the field?

Couldn't the same argument be made in Baker's favor. He's had a lot of winning seasons and the playoff losses weren't to teams full of schlubbs.

By my count, when Baker's teams have made the post-season, they've lost to the eventual World Champion every year but two.

Not that this means anything necessarily, just pointing out that if you dismiss his overall W-L percentage based on the fact that the talent largely dictates success, why would you not allow that talent, luck, and variability play a part in his post season success.

So in terms of evidence, you're basically disqualifying everything.