Official waiver trade deadline thread (Sept. 30)

[Patrick Bateman]

2 outs bottom of the ninth, the division on the line. A HR is a great way to accumulate a run. This is a chess match, late inning threat upgrade, not a starting player upgrade. Maybe that's why we're not seeing eye to eye.

So is taking a walk and extending the inning. Morneau just isn't that good of an offensive player, random home run blip on the statistical variation chart notwithstanding. There's a reason guys like Branyan and Cust stopped getting jobs. That particular skillset just doesn't come in handy enough to use a roster spot in the NL on it.

I honestly feel like this is the first time that I have heard anyone suggest that Huntington is playing chess and Jocketty is playing checkers. It's one not characteristic of their particular resumes. Coming into the season if you told me that at the deadline the Pirates would have acquired Marlon Byrd, John Buck, and Justin Morneau, I probably would have suggested Huntington was playing darts. These guys collectively have been available for a long time, and took minimal talent to acquire. Are the Pirates a better team by adding these guys? I would say so, but I would also say that's because they had more bottom of the roster issues than the Reds do. I think the Reds problems lie more in having too many average players in the line-up and not enough above average ones. That's a real difficult thing to improve at the deadline without paying outrageous prices.

[powersackers]

Truthfully, we are not seeing eye to eye because you are making up statistics.

Morneau isn't Justin Morneau anymore.

9 HR's in 28 games isnt' made up, truthfully. Sorry 29 counting Saturday. I made up 1 game.

[PuffyPig]

2 outs bottom of the ninth, the division on the line. A HR is a great way to accumulate a run. This is a chess match, late inning threat upgrade, not a starting player upgrade. Maybe that's why we're not seeing eye to eye.

And if the other team brings a LH pitcher to your little chess game, they just turned the .536 OPS hitting Morneau into Pete Kozma.

Checkmate.

[powersackers]

So is taking a walk and extending the inning. Morneau just isn't that good of an offensive player, random home run blip on the statistical variation chart notwithstanding. There's a reason guys like Branyan and Cust stopped getting jobs. That particular skillset just doesn't come in handy enough to use a roster spot in the NL on it.

I honestly feel like this is the first time that I have heard anyone suggest that Huntington is playing chess and Jocketty is playing checkers. It's one not characteristic of their particular resumes. Coming into the season if you told me that at the deadline the Pirates would have acquired Marlon Byrd, John Buck, and Justin Morneau, I probably would have suggested Huntington was playing darts. These guys collectively have been available for a long time, and took minimal talent to acquire. Are the Pirates a better team by adding these guys? I would say so, but I would also say that's because they had more bottom of the roster issues than the Reds do. I think the Reds problems lie more in having too many average players in the line-up and not enough above average ones. That's a real difficult thing to improve at the deadline without paying outrageous prices.

Close and late, those bottom of the roster players come into play! Having above average upgrades will increase your chances. Neil is acting about that realization. Walt isn't. Past resumes aside.

[powersackers]

And if the other team brings a LH pitcher to your little chess game, they just turned the .536 OPS hitting Morneau into Pete Kozma.

Checkmate.

No. I'll have Marlon Byrd (.960 OPS vs LHP), or a Sept. call up that can handle a Lefty and you just burned your loogy for no reason.

[Larry Schuler]

Then I'll summon Storm Showers +15 and knock your Rally -15. While you're stunned, I'll play Call Game (Rare) with Umpire Authority +4 and you'll be burnt toast.

[Falls City Beer]

So is taking a walk and extending the inning. Morneau just isn't that good of an offensive player, random home run blip on the statistical variation chart notwithstanding. There's a reason guys like Branyan and Cust stopped getting jobs. That particular skillset just doesn't come in handy enough to use a roster spot in the NL on it.

I honestly feel like this is the first time that I have heard anyone suggest that Huntington is playing chess and Jocketty is playing checkers. It's one not characteristic of their particular resumes. Coming into the season if you told me that at the deadline the Pirates would have acquired Marlon Byrd, John Buck, and Justin Morneau, I probably would have suggested Huntington was playing darts. These guys collectively have been available for a long time, and took minimal talent to acquire. Are the Pirates a better team by adding these guys? I would say so, but I would also say that's because they had more bottom of the roster issues than the Reds do. I think the Reds problems lie more in having too many average players in the line-up and not enough above average ones. That's a real difficult thing to improve at the deadline without paying outrageous prices.

I'd say the Reds also have quite a few bottom of the roster problems too. Some created by injury, others by choice.

[powersackers]

I really don't understand the gang tackling of me on this one. At this point in the season it costs 1/6th of someone's salary and a low level prospect to improve your chances of winning games late during a pennant drive.

I'm going to bow out on this. You guys can keep enjoying Izturis and Hanahan and thanking Jocketty for our coin flip playoff experience.

[Falls City Beer]

I really don't understand the gang tackling of me on this one. At this point in the season it costs 1/6th of someone's salary and a low level prospect to improve your chances of winning games late during a pennant drive.

I'm going to bow out on this. You guys can keep enjoying Izturis and Hanahan and thanking Jocketty for our coin flip playoff experience.

The Pirates are gambling on a hot streak from Morneau. Strikes me as a smart bet given their relative offensive weakness and the relative weakness of the NL overall. I mean, if the Pirates make the postseason, it's not like I look at the rest of the field and say, No way the Pirates can beat those guys. They've stomped the overall best team in the NL this season, the Cards. I'd say they have a much clearer route to the WS than just about any team right now.

[_Sir_Charles_]

I really don't understand the gang tackling of me on this one. At this point in the season it costs 1/6th of someone's salary and a low level prospect to improve your chances of winning games late during a pennant drive.

I'm going to bow out on this. You guys can keep enjoying Izturis and Hanahan and thanking Jocketty for our coin flip playoff experience.

I think powersackers makes a solid point. It's an upgrade. Period.

Entering the day, Pirates left-handed hitters had a .229 batting average, .296 on-base percentage and .694 OPS. The former two ranked worst in the majors. The latter ranked seventh-worst.

Morneau is a particularly potent bat against right-handed pitching, with a .281/.343/.488 slashline.

He also provides slightly better defense at first base than the Pirates had been getting. He has four Defensive Runs Saved this season. The Pirates first basemen have combined for -3 Defensive Runs Saved.

[edabbs44]

I really don't understand the gang tackling of me on this one. At this point in the season it costs 1/6th of someone's salary and a low level prospect to improve your chances of winning games late during a pennant drive.

I'm going to bow out on this. You guys can keep enjoying Izturis and Hanahan and thanking Jocketty for our coin flip playoff experience.

It isn't a bad move. It just doesn't appear to be a material one.

[Tom Servo]

It is an upgrade, but it is irrelevant to the Reds roster.

[Patrick Bateman]

I really don't understand the gang tackling of me on this one. At this point in the season it costs 1/6th of someone's salary and a low level prospect to improve your chances of winning games late during a pennant drive.

I'm going to bow out on this. You guys can keep enjoying Izturis and Hanahan and thanking Jocketty for our coin flip playoff experience.

You can't compare those guys to Morneau. He can't play SS or 3rd base. You aren't appreciating the defensive value.

What backup SS or 3rd basemen have been available for a song that would be upgrades? There are hardly many decent starters out there that I don't see where material upgrades are being found for these roster spots.

[Old school 1983]

Sometimes we get too caught up on obp and ops. I'm pretty sure Alex Presley isn't a great loss and morneau will do more in the remainder of the season to help Pittsburgh win despite not being the player he once was. And btw a walk to extend the inning may lead to a run. A home run always equals at least one run. Since when is baseball more about getting more men on base and getting more bases than your opponent. That doesn't guarantee success and a win. It's a good indicator, but the only thing that guarantees a win is to score more runs than your opponent. I think we are mistaking an indicator that success could be occuring for success itself at times on RZ in general.

[Patrick Bateman]

Sometimes we get too caught up on obp and ops. I'm pretty sure Alex Presley isn't a great loss and morneau will do more in the remainder of the season to help Pittsburgh win despite not being the player he once was. And btw a walk to extend the inning may lead to a run. A home run always equals at least one run. Since when is baseball more about getting more men on base and getting more bases than your opponent. That doesn't guarantee success and a win. It's a good indicator, but the only thing that guarantees a win is to score more runs than your opponent. I think we are mistaking an indicator that success could be occuring for success itself at times on RZ in general.

So we should just ignore everything except homeruns then? A leadoff walk in the 9th has no value? Are all games suddenly 1 run affairs the moment the 9th inning hits? The 9th, like every other inning, follows normal run scoring rules. Acquiring bases and hitting for power is how you score runs. You need a combo of both.

BTW, Morneau hasn't been a particularly good homerun hitter at 1st base for quite some time. And since when did homeruns guarantee wins?