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Thread: Official waiver trade deadline thread (Sept. 30)

  1. #76
    Ripsnort wheels's Avatar
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    Re: Official waiver trade deadline thread (August 31)

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    He would be an upgrade over Frazier, who's looking like a 400 PA wonder.
    You don't think Frazier can OPS .740?
    "We know we're better than this, but we can't prove it." - Tony Gwynn

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  3. #77
    Party like it's 1990 Blitz Dorsey's Avatar
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    Re: Official waiver trade deadline thread (August 31)

    Quote Originally Posted by wheels View Post
    You don't think Frazier can OPS .740?
    He can, but he won't this year. He continues to plummet and is currently at .710. I bet he falls into the .600s before the season is up if the Reds make the foolish decision to not address the hole at 3B.

    Something is really off about Frazier, IMO, and has been for quite a while. Hoping it magically turns itself around is not a wise approach IMO.

  4. #78
    Ripsnort wheels's Avatar
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    Re: Official waiver trade deadline thread (August 31)

    I'm definitely in the "upgrade 3B" camp, but one hot week and Frazier is out producing Michael Young while playing infinitely better defense.

    But 3B is a rough spot for most clubs. You can probably name three, maybe four guys that really make a huge offensive impact for their respective clubs at that position.

    Good third basemen are actually very hard to find.
    "We know we're better than this, but we can't prove it." - Tony Gwynn

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    Red Raindog (08-08-2013), REDREAD (08-09-2013)

  6. #79
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Official waiver trade deadline thread (August 31)

    Quote Originally Posted by wheels View Post
    You don't think Frazier can OPS .740?
    No. Frazier is toast until he gets out of the situation and reboots his game IMO. I'd be surprised if he could OPS .500 the rest of the way. His head is all messed up.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  7. #80
    I don't want to grow up Red Raindog's Avatar
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    Re: Official waiver trade deadline thread (August 31)

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    No. Frazier is toast until he gets out of the situation and reboots his game IMO. I'd be surprised if he could OPS .500 the rest of the way. His head is all messed up.
    his swing and approach are not exactly looking good either...

    The older I get - the better I was

    and yes - I hate the Cardinals (Reds fan since 1958)

  8. #81
    One and a half men Patrick Bateman's Avatar
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    Re: Official waiver trade deadline thread (August 31)

    Michael Young stinks. He'd be an ok guy to have around as a bench piece because he can still hit and place himself at different positions. But Frazier in my eyes is providing real value defensively, and is a good enough bat to easily provide more value than Young.

    You can't judge Frazier purely off the last few weeks. This is hardly the first stretch where he has looked pitiful. He has rebounded in the past. I would probably take Young's bat at this point, but not by much. Frazier is so much better defensively that it really tips the scales for me.

    In all, makes sense to add another guy to the 3rd base mix, especially if they can handle righties a bit to mix and match with Frazier. Don't think Young is the answer for that. He's a bench guy at this point, and I'm not going to lose much sleep if Walt fails to upgrade a bench spot.

  9. #82
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    Re: Official waiver trade deadline thread (August 31)

    Jimmy Rollins has cleared waivers as well now.

  10. #83
    Party like it's 1990 Blitz Dorsey's Avatar
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    Re: Official waiver trade deadline thread (August 31)

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman View Post
    Michael Young stinks. He'd be an ok guy to have around as a bench piece because he can still hit and place himself at different positions. But Frazier in my eyes is providing real value defensively, and is a good enough bat to easily provide more value than Young.

    You can't judge Frazier purely off the last few weeks. This is hardly the first stretch where he has looked pitiful. He has rebounded in the past. I would probably take Young's bat at this point, but not by much. Frazier is so much better defensively that it really tips the scales for me.

    In all, makes sense to add another guy to the 3rd base mix, especially if they can handle righties a bit to mix and match with Frazier. Don't think Young is the answer for that. He's a bench guy at this point, and I'm not going to lose much sleep if Walt fails to upgrade a bench spot.
    Michael Young's OPS is .747, Frazier's is .710 (and falling fast). If you think Young stinks, what does that say about Frazier? (Speaking strictly offensively here.)

    To be clear, I still want Frazier to have a chance at winning the job in 2014. But a 2-month rental of Michael Young sounds like a nice upgrade to me if he would be willing to waive the no-trade and if the Phillies were willing to take just one mid-range prospect out of our system (someone like Junior Arias, for instance). The Reds are going to be a dangerous team if they can sneak in the playoffs ... if they make a few necessary tweaks down the stretch. No one is acting like Michael Young is some great player (or even the Michael Young of old).

    The question is who would you rather have as the Reds' starting 3B for the rest of this season? I would take Young no questions asked. Frazier can still get some spot starts; could be a late-inning defensive replacement. If the Phils are willing to play ball with us (and Young is too) I don't see why any Reds fan wouldn't be on board with adding Young. Frazier's season is collapsing right in front of our eyes. For those who have said it's about the last week or the last couple of weeks, it's actually much more than that. Fraz has gotten progressively worse as the season has progressed. I think Reds fans that are hoping to see the April version of Frazier are going to be disappointed if he ends up holding on to the starting job down the stretch.

  11. #84
    One and a half men Patrick Bateman's Avatar
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    Re: Official waiver trade deadline thread (August 31)

    Quote Originally Posted by Blitz Dorsey View Post
    Michael Young's OPS is .747, Frazier's is .710 (and falling fast). If you think Young stinks, what does that say about Frazier? (Speaking strictly offensively here.)
    As usual, read my previous post.

    As I said, I would probably take Young's bat over Frazier, but the difference in OPS of .037 certainly is not a significant margin especially considering that Frazier grossly outhit Young last season. Adding Young is at best, a very, very slim upgrade at bat.

    Factoring in defense... I believe Frazier to be a significantly above average fielding 3rd basemen. i've been impressed with his work defenisvely all season. Compared to Young, who has long been a butcher at 3rd, and the defensive difference is in my mind, clearly more significant than the difference at bat. Adding Young to the line-up just isn't going to improve the every day team in any kind of meaningful capacity. Because of his defensive limitations, Young is best served as a utility player filling in at multiple positions when guys need rest. Presumably Young's hitting advantage is a better add to the lineup than Hannahan/Izturis/whoever. From that perspective, if you could add Young to the bench and paying a price that is consistent with that production, then fine. It's a nice way to improve the margins at the bottom of the roster which has been a weakness to this point in the season. Is it going to pay significant dividends? Of course not, but sure it could be the difference in a game or two which could ultimately decide a playoff spot, so I'm always open to finding ways to improve any of the 25 roster spots, assuming a fair price is paid to do so.

    To be clear, I still want Frazier to have a chance at winning the job in 2014. But a 2-month rental of Michael Young sounds like a nice upgrade to me if he would be willing to waive the no-trade and if the Phillies were willing to take just one mid-range prospect out of our system (someone like Junior Arias, for instance).
    I really think you are underestimating just how bad defensively Young is. If he were OPSing .830 or something, then you can live with it. But Frazier was keeping up with him offensively as recently as 2 weeks ago. Let's not act like Young is some kind of magical offensive player that this line-up has never seen. The sum of his parts just isn't that of a meaningful upgrade at this stage of his career, and wasn't last season either.


    The Reds are going to be a dangerous team if they can sneak in the playoffs ... if they make a few necessary tweaks down the stretch. No one is acting like Michael Young is some great player (or even the Michael Young of old).

    For those who have said it's about the last week or the last couple of weeks, it's actually much more than that. Fraz has gotten progressively worse as the season has progressed. I think Reds fans that are hoping to see the April version of Frazier are going to be disappointed if he ends up holding on to the starting job down the stretch.
    59 at bats ago (or 17 games, about 2.5 weeks) Todd Frazier was OPSing .730.

    Your upgrade solution has a seasonal OPS of .747, and is pathetic defensively. Also in 651 PA last year Young had a .682 OPS. That is a full season worth worse than Frazier is currently doing. Is that not a red flag too, suggesting that Young's bat is in decline?

    Yes, for you, it is about "the last couple of weeks". Otherwise, without those "couple of weeks", there is literally no evidence that suggests that Young is an upgrade over Frazier. At least with the "last couple of weeks" one could argue that Frazier's hitting mechanics or psyche are broken or something to that affect that will prevent him from sustaining his overall season's level of production.

    I don't buy that. Frazier has always had a loopy swing and often has pathetic at-bats even when he is going well. IMO, like Bruce, he just doesn't have an offensive style that is easy on the eyes. But in the end, he has enough ability and discipline to go on streaks and add roughly league average offensive production.

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  13. #85
    Worst Behavior. reds44's Avatar
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    Re: Official waiver trade deadline thread (August 31)

    I love Todd Frazier as a person and I think he's better than his numbers are right now, but the fact people are defending him by saying his OPS was .730 3 weeks ago is not a good look.
    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    Let's face it, you mis-hit the bun with the mustard squirter, no one will really care.

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    CoachBombay (08-13-2013)

  15. #86
    Ripsnort wheels's Avatar
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    Re: Official waiver trade deadline thread (August 31)

    Its not intended to be a glowing endorsement of Frazier to say that Michael Young isn't much better.

    Someone suggested dealing Junior Arias for Young. I would rather keep our .700 ish OPS guy, plus the prospect, rather than dealing said prospect for a guy who can't play the field or hit appreciably better than said .700 ish OPS guy.
    "We know we're better than this, but we can't prove it." - Tony Gwynn

  16. #87
    One and a half men Patrick Bateman's Avatar
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    Re: Official waiver trade deadline thread (August 31)

    Quote Originally Posted by wheels View Post
    Its not intended to be a glowing endorsement of Frazier to say that Michael Young isn't much better.

    Someone suggested dealing Junior Arias for Young. I would rather keep our .700 ish OPS guy, plus the prospect, rather than dealing said prospect for a guy who can't play the field or hit appreciably better than said .700 ish OPS guy.
    Exactly. When someone says the problem isn't a "2 week thing", when in reality, before the last 2 weeks the offensive production was extremely similar, it begs to question exactly how the replacement is supposed to be any kind of upgrade.

  17. #88
    Making sense of it all Matt700wlw's Avatar
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    Re: Official waiver trade deadline thread (August 31)

    Jimmy Rollins and Michael Young look to be the only players to clear waivers....

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/0...medium=twitter

  18. #89
    Worst Behavior. reds44's Avatar
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    Re: Official waiver trade deadline thread (August 31)

    Rollins OPS is only .008 points higher than Cozart's? How is this possible?
    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    Let's face it, you mis-hit the bun with the mustard squirter, no one will really care.

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    CoachBombay (08-13-2013)

  20. #90
    Making sense of it all Matt700wlw's Avatar
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    Re: Official waiver trade deadline thread (August 31)

    Add Adam Dunn to the list


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