Turn Off Ads?
Page 1 of 6 12345 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 88

Thread: So Manny Parra has proven that you NEVER trade cheap starting pitching

  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Columbus, OH
    Posts
    992

    So Manny Parra has proven that you NEVER trade cheap starting pitching

    For specialized relief help.

    Absolutely absurd, giving up Travis Wood for Sean Marshall. You can ALWAYS find LOOGY's abound, and Parra has been unreal lately, for the cost of nothing.

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #2
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Columbus, OH
    Posts
    992

    Re: So Manny Parra has proven that you NEVER trade cheap starting pitching

    I remember Cards fans complaining that Jocketty always left their farm system pretty much dead.

    I'm not complaining about the present, but the future, sure I am.

    Signing Broxton and trading for Marshall has severely crippled both the teams' minor league talent, and has cost them salary flexibility for the next few years.

  4. #3
    Just A Couple Johnny's OneManBand's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    361

    Re: So Manny Parra has proven that you NEVER trade cheap starting pitching

    Quote Originally Posted by 5TimeWSChamps View Post
    I remember Cards fans complaining that Jocketty always left their farm system pretty much dead.

    I'm not complaining about the present, but the future, sure I am.

    Signing Broxton and trading for Marshall has severely crippled both the teams' minor league talent, and has cost them salary flexibility for the next few years.
    Based on this rotation where does Travis Wood fit in? Where does Donnie Joesph & JC Sulbaran fit in? I'm okay with the deals.. I'm not okay with the amount they got resigned to but I'm okay with the deals.

  5. Likes:

    OGB (08-07-2013)

  6. #4
    Member Wonderful Monds's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    2,690

    Re: So Manny Parra has proven that you NEVER trade cheap starting pitching

    One problem:

    Sean Marshall is not a LOOGY.
    They don't think it be like it is, but it do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Schuler View Post
    He has also taught me that even when the Reds win it is important to focus on the fact that they could have lost.

  7. Likes:

    757690 (08-04-2013), Brutus (08-04-2013), CarolinaRedleg (08-07-2013), cumberlandreds (08-04-2013), Cursh14 (08-07-2013), Donder (08-04-2013), gilpdawg (08-05-2013), HeatherC1212 (08-05-2013), LexRedsFan (08-04-2013), m21eagle45 (08-04-2013), marcshoe (08-04-2013), nmculbreth (08-04-2013), OGB (08-07-2013), pahster (08-04-2013), PuffyPig (08-04-2013), Red in Chicago (08-04-2013), reds1869 (08-04-2013), RedsfaninMT (08-04-2013), redsrule2500 (08-05-2013), The Operator (08-07-2013), Tom Servo (08-04-2013)

  8. #5
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Columbus, OH
    Posts
    992

    Re: So Manny Parra has proven that you NEVER trade cheap starting pitching

    Quote Originally Posted by OneManBand View Post
    Based on this rotation where does Travis Wood fit in? Where does Donnie Joesph & JC Sulbaran fit in? I'm okay with the deals.. I'm not okay with the amount they got resigned to but I'm okay with the deals.
    This year? He would be in the rotation for Cueto and Cingrani would be in the bullpen. Joseph and Sulbaran would still be in minors

  9. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Columbus, OH
    Posts
    992

    Re: So Manny Parra has proven that you NEVER trade cheap starting pitching

    Quote Originally Posted by Wonderful Monds View Post
    One problem:

    Sean Marshall is not a LOOGY.
    And right now, neither is Manny Parra

  10. #7
    Member Gizmo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Currently in MD
    Posts
    948

    Re: So Manny Parra has proven that you NEVER trade cheap starting pitching

    Quote Originally Posted by 5TimeWSChamps View Post
    I remember Cards fans complaining that Jocketty always left their farm system pretty much dead.
    Yep, the Cardinals have been dead in the water since Jocketty crippled them. Who knows when they'll be able to turn it around...
    Is it "next season" yet?

  11. Likes:

    CarolinaRedleg (08-07-2013), Cursh14 (08-07-2013), Donder (08-04-2013), HeatherC1212 (08-05-2013), marcshoe (08-04-2013), Number_Fourteen (08-04-2013), OGB (08-07-2013), pahster (08-04-2013), PedroBourbon (08-07-2013), PuffyPig (08-04-2013), RedsfaninMT (08-04-2013), redsrule2500 (08-05-2013), The Operator (08-07-2013), Tom Servo (08-04-2013)

  12. #8
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Columbus, OH
    Posts
    992

    Re: So Manny Parra has proven that you NEVER trade cheap starting pitching

    Quote Originally Posted by Gizmo View Post
    Yep, the Cardinals have been dead in the water since Jocketty crippled them. Who knows when they'll be able to turn it around...
    2007 - The last year Jocketty was with the Cardinals:

    27th - http://www.baseballprospectus.com/ar...articleid=5870
    23rd - http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/ar...organizations/
    23rd - http://www.baseballamerica.com/onlin...07/263636.html

    HEADED UP, OR DOWN?
    Here's how the 30 organizations have stacked up in the previous five years:

    '06 '05 '04 '03 '02
    1. Tampa Bay Devil Rays 10 9 9 10 15
    2. Colorado Rockies 11 6 15 25 24
    3. Arizona Diamondbacks 1 13 13 21 23
    4. Los Angeles Angels 4 1 3 5 17
    5. New York Yankees 17 24 27 17 5
    6. Los Angeles Dodgers 2 2 2 14 25
    7. Milwaukee Brewers 5 3 1 16 26
    8. Minnesota Twins 6 4 5 4 6
    9. Boston Red Sox 8 21 23 27 28
    10. Cleveland Indians 9 7 6 1 20
    11. Kansas City Royals 23 28 19 26 21
    12. Cincinnati Reds 30 23 26 24 14
    13. New York Mets 28 19 10 13 27
    14. Detroit Tigers 13 29 22 12 18
    15. Atlanta Braves 7 5 4 2 7
    16. Florida Marlins 3 14 14 8 10
    17. Baltimore Orioles 12 25 19 30 29
    18. Chicago Cubs 15 10 7 3 1
    19. Pittsburgh Pirates 19 18 11 18 22
    20. San Francisco Giants 18 17 24 11 12
    21. Philadelphia Phillies 22 20 21 7 11
    22. Houston Astros 20 22 29 23 3
    23. St. Louis Cardinals 21 30 28 28 30
    24. Seattle Mariners 27 11 12 9 2
    25. Chicago White Sox 14 12 20 15 9
    26. Toronto Blue Jays 25 15 8 6 13
    27. Oakland Athletics 26 8 17 22 19
    28. Texas Rangers 16 16 16 19 8
    29. San Diego Padres 29 27 25 20 4
    30. Washington Nationals 24 26 30 29 16
    So the last 6 years Jocketty was with St Louis, they ranked 30th-28th-28th-30th-21st-23rd

    2006:
    21st http://www.baseballamerica.com/today...006/26854.html

  13. #9
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Columbus, OH
    Posts
    992

    Re: So Manny Parra has proven that you NEVER trade cheap starting pitching

    I feel like everyone's happy because Hey, We're finally winning!

    But in all honesty, this team sure feels like it's built on credit with high risk.

  14. #10
    .377 in 1905 CySeymour's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Carmel, IN
    Posts
    2,125

    Re: So Manny Parra has proven that you NEVER trade cheap starting pitching

    With Cingrani and Stephenson on the way, I don't think starting pitching is an issue with the Reds.
    ...the 2-2 to Woodsen and here it comes...and it is swung on and missed! And Tom Browning has pitched a perfect game! Twenty-seven outs in a row, and he is being mobbed by his teammates, just to the thirdbase side of the mound.

  15. Likes:

    Old school 1983 (08-04-2013)

  16. #11
    Winning the Human Race TheBigLebowski's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Titletown, FL
    Posts
    3,852

    Re: So Manny Parra has proven that you NEVER trade cheap starting pitching

    We gave up nothing of real value for either Marshall or Broxton. Wood's 2013 is a data point. I also think you're extrapolating this one rare case (Parra) to make a broader point. If it was truly that easy to find cheap, effective relief help, it wouldn't sell for such a premium. MLB gm's are not stupid people. I also think, due to his extended absence, you forget just how good Marshall is.

    Now...the contract we gave Broxton...THAT is a different conversation.
    Founder and Ruling Elite of the Derrick Robinson Fan Club. Limited amount of memberships available.

  17. Likes:

    OGB (08-07-2013)

  18. #12
    Moderator Plus Plus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN
    Posts
    1,494

    Re: So Manny Parra has proven that you NEVER trade cheap starting pitching

    Just out of curiosity, where would you slot Wood into the rotation if the SP options were Cueto, Latos, Bailey, Arroyo, Leake, Cingrani, Wood?

    Wood is, at least to me, the worst of the 7 options by a decent margin.

    Also, using hindsight to use unpredictable events to prove a point isn't very compelling. Marshall was literally the best RP in the NL before he was traded to the Reds, so acquiring him was a very good move, considering that the Reds are contenders who needed a bullpen boost.

    It's kind of like saying that the Reds trading for Griffey was a terrible decision because he got injured all the time, when in reality it was a terrible decision because ownership ignored the other 24 players on the roster, especially the pitching staff, while Griffey was a Red.
    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Thus his team was punished

    Long live punishment
    Quote Originally Posted by BCubb2003 View Post
    The base you want to acquire is home.

  19. Likes:

    OGB (08-07-2013), REDREAD (08-05-2013)

  20. #13
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    7,862

    Re: So Manny Parra has proven that you NEVER trade cheap starting pitching

    I fail to see how that one single trade and Manny Parra's sub-30 IP proves anything.

    If people around the game knew Wood would turn out to be this serviceable, I'm sure the Reds could have gotten more for him. But his emergence has been a suprise for the most part.

  21. #14
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Calgary, Alberta, aka, the most prosperous city in the world.
    Posts
    10,560

    Re: So Manny Parra has proven that you NEVER trade cheap starting pitching

    Quote Originally Posted by 5TimeWSChamps View Post
    I feel like everyone's happy because Hey, We're finally winning!

    But in all honesty, this team sure feels like it's built on credit with high risk.
    Small market teams will always have a shorter window to contend, and must take advantage of it when they are contending.

    The theory that small market teams can contend now and keep building up a strong farm system just isn't true. Unless they simply draft smarter than everyone else every year, once they taste success their lower draft ranking will ensure that their farm system gets weaker while they contend. As their players get more expensive, they'll have to pick and chose whom they keep. With less dollars than everyone else, there is simply no margin for error.

    So, when small market teams get into a position to contend, they need to go for it.

  22. Likes:

    OGB (08-07-2013), Old NDN (08-04-2013), remdog (08-04-2013), TheBigLebowski (08-04-2013)

  23. #15
    Member Kiko's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    101

    Re: So Manny Parra has proven that you NEVER trade cheap starting pitching

    You are forgetting that Marshall has helped Parra with his role (Parra has given Marshall credit). So, you could say without Marshall, Parra would still be drifting around.


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25