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Thread: So Manny Parra has proven that you NEVER trade cheap starting pitching

  1. #46
    Party like it's 1990 Blitz Dorsey's Avatar
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    Re: So Manny Parra has proven that you NEVER trade cheap starting pitching

    Quote Originally Posted by Wonderful Monds View Post
    Yeah, he's missed almost a whole year. It happens sometimes.

    Joey Votto missed most of last year too. Is he "Glass Joe" now?


    Oh, and the Reds haven't "lost" any trade yet. Travis Wood has put up around 3/4 of a season of a really good ERA built upon an unsustainable BABIP.
    I get that. Was just making a (bad) joke.

    But let's not compare Votto missing a few weeks last year with Marshall missing the entire season this year. (At least so far.) Also, when a pitcher has recurring shoulder problems ... me worry.

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  3. #47
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    Re: So Manny Parra has proven that you NEVER trade cheap starting pitching

    Quote Originally Posted by Blitz Dorsey View Post
    I get that. Was just making a (bad) joke.

    But let's not compare Votto missing a few weeks last year with Marshall missing the entire season this year. (At least so far.) Also, when a pitcher has recurring shoulder problems ... me worry.
    X 2 Baseball docs have shown that Elbows are fixable, shoulder issues almost never go away.

  4. #48
    Party like it's 1990 Blitz Dorsey's Avatar
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    Re: So Manny Parra has proven that you NEVER trade cheap starting pitching

    Quote Originally Posted by SporkLover View Post
    X 2 Baseball docs have shown that Elbows are fixable, shoulder issues almost never go away.
    Yep, this is my concern with Sean Marshall.

    That and we traded with a team in our division. Just not a smart move there by Walt.

  5. #49
    Churlish Johnny Footstool's Avatar
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    Re: So Manny Parra has proven that you NEVER trade cheap starting pitching

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    SS, catcher, 3rd, platoon bat in LF. You're right, the point isn't to save money by signing cheaper relievers, but it is to avoid having gaping black holes at 3/4 positions.
    The Reds seem convinced that Frazier is the 3B, Cozart is the SS, and Mesoraco is the catcher going forward. They were also convinced that Ludwick was the answer in LF.

    I can't think of any position players they would have signed using the money they gave Broxton.
    "I prefer books and movies where the conflict isn't of the extreme cannibal apocalypse variety I guess." Redsfaithful

  6. #50
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    Re: So Manny Parra has proven that you NEVER trade cheap starting pitching

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool View Post
    The Reds seem convinced that Frazier is the 3B, Cozart is the SS, and Mesoraco is the catcher going forward. They were also convinced that Ludwick was the answer in LF.

    I can't think of any position players they would have signed using the money they gave Broxton.
    Counting on Mesaraco/Hanigan, Frazier, and Cozart was the problem. I'm not arguing what might have been, I'm arguing what should have been, ideally.

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    Re: So Manny Parra has proven that you NEVER trade cheap starting pitching

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool View Post
    The Reds seem convinced that Frazier is the 3B, Cozart is the SS, and Mesoraco is the catcher going forward. They were also convinced that Ludwick was the answer in LF.

    I can't think of any position players they would have signed using the money they gave Broxton.
    Not saying these would have to Cincy..but 2013 free agent signings:
    - Stephen Drew SS (1 year 9.5M)
    - Tori Hunter OF (2 year 26 M)

    There were a handful of other OF options, but SS and 3B were slim pickings of options.

  8. #52
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    Re: So Manny Parra has proven that you NEVER trade cheap starting pitching

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool View Post
    The Reds seem convinced that Frazier is the 3B, Cozart is the SS, and Mesoraco is the catcher going forward. They were also convinced that Ludwick was the answer in LF.

    I can't think of any position players they would have signed using the money they gave Broxton.
    A better bench?

    That is about it.

    Someone wrote Hunter....but they wanted a cleanup hitter and do not think Bruce is it, and Phillips was not expected to be the one.

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    Re: So Manny Parra has proven that you NEVER trade cheap starting pitching

    Broxton and Marshall will be making $12.5 mil next year combined....

    And then $15.5 mil combined in 2015

    If you don't see the problems with this, then I don't know what to tell you

  10. #54
    Party like it's 1990 Blitz Dorsey's Avatar
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    Re: So Manny Parra has proven that you NEVER trade cheap starting pitching

    Quote Originally Posted by 5TimeWSChamps View Post
    Broxton and Marshall will be making $12.5 mil next year combined....

    And then $15.5 mil combined in 2015

    If you don't see the problems with this, then I don't know what to tell you
    Can't imagine anyone couldn't see the problem with this. By far Walt's biggest flaw has been overvaluing bad (or injury-prone) relievers. How 'bout that contract he gave Masset! Add that with Broxton and Marshall and we have a dumpster fire for all ages.

  11. #55
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    Re: So Manny Parra has proven that you NEVER trade cheap starting pitching

    Quote Originally Posted by 5TimeWSChamps View Post
    Broxton and Marshall will be making $12.5 mil next year combined....

    And then $15.5 mil combined in 2015

    If you don't see the problems with this, then I don't know what to tell you
    I think the team's missing these two guys a bunch. Reds relievers gave up 14 runs this weekend not to mention they allowed a bunch of inherited runs cross the plate. I don't know if Broxton and Marshall are worth the kind of money they're making but if they come back healthy in the next few weeks and pitch like they're capable no one will be complaining about it.

  12. #56
    Member Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: So Manny Parra has proven that you NEVER trade cheap starting pitching

    Is that too much money in relievers? Yes. But by all means keep piling on the hyperbole about how terrible it is and how all other teams in baseball are flawless compared to the totally inept/lazy/stupid Reds.
    "Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."

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    Re: So Manny Parra has proven that you NEVER trade cheap starting pitching

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Servo View Post
    Is that too much money in relievers? Yes. But by all means keep piling on the hyperbole about how terrible it is and how all other teams in baseball are flawless compared to the totally inept/lazy/stupid Reds.
    Hyperbole?

    You have $48 million tied up in a quickly aging 2B who has a lower OPS than our .220 hitting 3B.
    $27 million guaranteed to two setup guys, one of which may never be the same with shoulder issues.

    On a team that's not the Yankees, and has pretty much maxed out what they are going to spend for the next 3 years.

    The team was built to win this year, and it's not happening. And the future of the team is looking more and more questionable as well.

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    Re: So Manny Parra has proven that you NEVER trade cheap starting pitching

    Quote Originally Posted by 5TimeWSChamps View Post
    Hyperbole?

    You have $48 million tied up in a quickly aging 2B who has a lower OPS than our .220 hitting 3B.
    $27 million guaranteed to two setup guys, one of which may never be the same with shoulder issues.

    On a team that's not the Yankees, and has pretty much maxed out what they are going to spend for the next 3 years.

    The team was built to win this year, and it's not happening. And the future of the team is looking more and more questionable as well.
    You and I have no idea how much the Reds have to spend in the future. I doubt the Reds front office knows exactly what they can afford in the coming years at this point.

    Btw, both Marshall and Broxton could close for many teams.

  16. #59
    Member joshua's Avatar
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    Re: So Manny Parra has proven that you NEVER trade cheap starting pitching

    Quote Originally Posted by JayStubbs View Post
    You and I have no idea how much the Reds have to spend in the future. I doubt the Reds front office knows exactly what they can afford in the coming years at this point.

    Btw, both Marshall and Broxton could close for many teams.
    From the DL?

  17. #60
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    Re: So Manny Parra has proven that you NEVER trade cheap starting pitching

    Quote Originally Posted by Plus Plus View Post
    Just out of curiosity, where would you slot Wood into the rotation if the SP options were Cueto, Latos, Bailey, Arroyo, Leake, Cingrani, Wood?

    Wood is, at least to me, the worst of the 7 options by a decent margin.
    I think the idea is that a decent SP can easily make a good bullpen arm. Worst comes to worst, he's in the bullpen helping the team more than an injured Marshall.
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