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Thread: Why is Zach Duke not on the team?

  1. #16
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    Re: Why is Zach Duke not on the team?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blitz Dorsey View Post
    Yes, I'm sure intelligent baseball fans like Cardinal fans criticized Jocketty for no reason. Now we are seeing why. You call it a soapbox, I call it reality. Do tell, besides the Latos trade, what has Jocketty done well? He inherited Votto, Bruce, Phillips, Bailey, Cueto, Arroyo, etc.
    Ludwick, Marshall, Rolen, Broxton. Signed Votto long term, extended Bruce and Cueto. Just because he inherits them does not mean he gets no credit for keeping his best.
    "When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail"

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  3. #17
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    Re: Why is Zach Duke not on the team?

    Bemoaning not having Zach Duke is not a good look.

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  5. #18
    malingered here too long malcontent's Avatar
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    Re: Why is Zach Duke not on the team?

    If the Reds miss out on the playoffs by a game or two, the two starts by Villarreal and Reynolds will loom large.

    I'd take Duke over either one of those guys. Bottom line for me is that Jocketty just seems to sit on problems without addressing them forever.

    Case in point is having C. Miller as your starting catcher every fourth game.

    Miguel Olivo is out there as we speak, and he's probably no worse an all-around catcher than Hanigan. After watching Hanigan's complete futility at the plate, I'd prefer Olivo.
    Last edited by malcontent; 08-04-2013 at 09:10 PM.
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  6. #19
    One and a half men Patrick Bateman's Avatar
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    Re: Why is Zach Duke not on the team?

    Zach Duke is not on anyone's major league team, and the last time he was he sucked.

    Duke, Villareal..... who cares. Maybe we lost out on another Horst!!

    Let's not act like Duke is such an obvious candidate to be in the majors that the only logical assumption is that Jocketty is lazy. That, as a matter of fact, is lazy analysis.
    Last edited by Patrick Bateman; 08-04-2013 at 09:22 PM.

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  8. #20
    Party like it's 1990 Blitz Dorsey's Avatar
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    Re: Why is Zach Duke not on the team?

    Quote Originally Posted by bubbachunk View Post
    Ludwick, Marshall, Rolen, Broxton. Signed Votto long term, extended Bruce and Cueto. Just because he inherits them does not mean he gets no credit for keeping his best.
    Broxton? Thanks for proving my point.

  9. #21
    Party like it's 1990 Blitz Dorsey's Avatar
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    Re: Why is Zach Duke not on the team?

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman View Post
    Zach Duke is not on anyone's major league team, and the last time he was he sucked.

    Duke, Villareal..... who cares. Maybe we lost out on another Horst!!

    Let's not act like Duke is such an obvious candidate to be in the majors that the only logical assumption is that Jocketty is lazy. That, as a matter of fact, is lazy analysis.
    "Who cares" is not a lazy comment on your part? C'mon now, don't be a hypocrite.

    Bottom line: It's my opinion that Zach Duke is better than Pedro Villarreal. If you think differently or think "no one cares," that's fine.

  10. #22
    Member hebroncougar's Avatar
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    Re: Why is Zach Duke not on the team?

    Quote Originally Posted by m21eagle45 View Post
    Have you seen Duke pitch for other teams? He was awful. Don't let 19 innings in the minors blind you from that. Greg Reynolds has also put up huge numbers in the minors this year for the Reds. People on here were calling for him to make the spot starts for the Reds. When he was called up he looked just like he did with Colorado.

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...dukeza01.shtml
    While I don't disagree, I'm shocked as much as Dusty like to play matchups that a 2nd lefty wasn't brought up. Villereal though?

  11. #23
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    Re: Why is Zach Duke not on the team?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blitz Dorsey View Post
    Broxton? Thanks for proving my point.
    Yes he was a vital bullpen arm down the stretch last year. If we could predict when players would get injuries than anybody could be a GM.
    "When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail"

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  13. #24
    Party like it's 1990 Blitz Dorsey's Avatar
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    Re: Why is Zach Duke not on the team?

    Quote Originally Posted by bubbachunk View Post
    Yes he was a vital bullpen arm down the stretch last year. If we could predict when players would get injuries than anybody could be a GM.
    We would have won the division with or without him last year. And then Walt signs him to some absurd 3-year, $21-million contract. And you want to defend that?

    OK, try and win the argument, even though you likely know the Broxton situation has been anything but favorable for the Reds (and Walt's resume).

    I'm sure Walt would love a mulligan on that one. Just awful.

  14. #25
    One and a half men Patrick Bateman's Avatar
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    Re: Why is Zach Duke not on the team?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blitz Dorsey View Post
    "Who cares" is not a lazy comment on your part? C'mon now, don't be a hypocrite.

    Bottom line: It's my opinion that Zach Duke is better than Pedro Villarreal. If you think differently or think "no one cares," that's fine.
    Lazy? Zach Duke has a career 4.60 ERA and hasn't done anything even remotely resembling useful since 2009.

    Sorry, but 18 innings of reasonable AAA pitching doesn't have me a flutter with excitement. The guy even had a chance in the bullpen this year with the Nats with a similar sample size and posted a K rate below 5.

    I will repeat. Who cares about Zach Duke? If Jocketty decided not to call him up, there is plenty of evidence to suggest he's not major league calibre, and I'm sure the discussion was had with the coaches in AAA to determine whether he could contribute in the majors.

    I'm not saying that Villareal necessarily is any better, but yes, it is lazy to suggest that the only reason he got the call, and not Zach friggen Duke, was because Jocketty didn't want to make the effort of making a minor roster move is incredibly lazy analysis. In the end these guys have proven to be fungible arms and be utilized as emergency call-ups. Neither guy has proven over a long period of time that they deserve more than a cup of coffee in the big leagues. It's a preference choice largely based on what they feel they need for a short period of games.

    There are 100 other reasons why one might not choose to bring Zach Duke up besides sheer ineptitude on Jocketty's part. If it was such an obvious answer, I'm sure the other 29 teams will be flying to wherever Duke lives and bang his door down and carry him in a burlap sack back to their stadium to ensure no other team can steal them from them.
    Last edited by Patrick Bateman; 08-05-2013 at 02:25 AM.

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    Re: Why is Zach Duke not on the team?

    let me ask this....what if Duke gets picked up by a playoff team and helps them down the stretch and does good in the playoffs....will any of you posters come on here and admit that Walt made a horrible move?

    Look, I get what you all are saying....I also understand what the OP is saying...let me try to give you all cliff notes on what the OP is trying to get at.....here goes my best try. Hey walt, your making more money in one year than the average fan does in 20, why dont you work as hard on your bottom feeder players as you do on your top of the food chain players and maybe our roster would not be in the shape its in......I dont think the OP is saying that Duke would be the next Sean Marshall in our pen, he is simply stating that allowing a pitcher like Pedro Villareal to stay while letting a pitcher like Zach Duke, who has some actual experience and has shown signs of getting it together and the ability to get actual hitters out, you let Duke walk while showing no effort at all to keep him around.....Zach Duke might be player #40 on our 40 man, but player 40 is just as important as player 1 at some point.....you have to treat each and every player that is on the 40, and thats not on the 40 but in your system, the same.....if you slack in your job Walt, your players will do the same.....

    Tony Gwynn once said when he was asked why he wanted to get into coaching....his reply was something to the effect of this....."I want to show the players that even coaches and office personel have to put in 14 hour work days to make the team a success.

    for all you who know Tony and his background....Dude was relentless in his work....before he took the head coach jod at SDSU he helped the Padres front office in player devolopment and scouting.....Tony would often volunteer to go scout players that no one else wanted to...he would often be the last player to leave the office, sometimes well after the Padres would be done playing their game and then would have to make sure before he left that someone would be there to let him in the stadium the next morning because he would get there before anyone else....he did all this knowing that he never wanted to move up the ladder with the Padres, he was always just waiting on the SDSU job to open up, he did all this because when you show the players how hard you work, they will folow suit.

    In Walt's case.....he has a rep for not working hard and making questionable choices....Now, I think walt is probably smarter than any 10 of us here on RZ combined when it comes to running a MLB team, but I also think he has gotten complacent in his old age and he knows that Bob Castellini and his family will let him have carte blanche over almost any and all decisions made.

    Billy Beane said it best when asked why he still works 7 days a week in the off season, his reply was....."this is what I love to do, what else am I going to do? go on vacation to somewhere where all I will do is think about the team".......sometimes you need a guy at GM that will not only put in the time, but a guy that lives and dies with the game. I am not so sure Walt is there, he used to be....but at his age and this point in his career I think he fine letting the team roll with what they have and he is fine not having to work 14 hour days to improve the roster, he appears ok with the roster we have......maybe Walt is correct, maybe we will win it all with what we have now...all it takes is one hot streak come playoff time.....I for one though, I cant say I am looking forward to Walt being our rep at the winter meetings this offseason.....I am just not sure what his future holds and I dont know if he wants to be known as a guy who takes the big risk. afterall, his legacy is already a good one. why change now at the end of your career.

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  18. #27
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    Re: Why is Zach Duke not on the team?

    Zach Duke is terrible. Why is there a thread about him?

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  20. #28
    Knowledge Is Good Big Klu's Avatar
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    Re: Why is Zach Duke not on the team?

    Where, and among whom, does Walt Jocketty have a reputation of not working hard? The only place I have ever heard of it is from the few crackpots on RedsZone who want "heads to roll" at the least sign of adversity, and since Walt refuses to comply with their desire, he therefore must be "asleep at the wheel", "taking a nap", "gone fishin'", or whatever other insulting metaphor du jour is en vogue.

    Frankly, I would just love to see an alternate universe version of the Reds where the GM had a hair trigger just like the "fans" want, where trades were made spur of the moment to fill the latest desperate situation, players were called up and waived without any regard to options or 40-man roster manipulation, and managers and coaches were hired and fired more often than George Jetson. The status of the team would no doubt be an unmitigated train wreck, but by god, heads would roll!
    Eric Stratton, Rush Chairman. Damn glad to meet ya.

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  22. #29
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    Re: Why is Zach Duke not on the team?

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Klu View Post
    Where, and among whom, does Walt Jocketty have a reputation of not working hard? The only place I have ever heard of it is from the few crackpots on RedsZone who want "heads to roll" at the least sign of adversity, and since Walt refuses to comply with their desire, he therefore must be "asleep at the wheel", "taking a nap", "gone fishin'", or whatever other insulting metaphor du jour is en vogue.

    Frankly, I would just love to see an alternate universe version of the Reds where the GM had a hair trigger just like the "fans" want, where trades were made spur of the moment to fill the latest desperate situation, players were called up and waived without any regard to options or 40-man roster manipulation, and managers and coaches were hired and fired more often than George Jetson. The status of the team would no doubt be an unmitigated train wreck, but by god, heads would roll!


    I like it! Let's go all Paris, France circa 1790-91 on this organization!

  23. #30
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    Re: Why is Zach Duke not on the team?

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Klu View Post
    Where, and among whom, does Walt Jocketty have a reputation of not working hard? The only place I have ever heard of it is from the few crackpots on RedsZone who want "heads to roll" at the least sign of adversity, and since Walt refuses to comply with their desire, he therefore must be "asleep at the wheel", "taking a nap", "gone fishin'", or whatever other insulting metaphor du jour is en vogue.

    Frankly, I would just love to see an alternate universe version of the Reds where the GM had a hair trigger just like the "fans" want, where trades were made spur of the moment to fill the latest desperate situation, players were called up and waived without any regard to options or 40-man roster manipulation, and managers and coaches were hired and fired more often than George Jetson. The status of the team would no doubt be an unmitigated train wreck, but by god, heads would roll!
    The guy you are describing is Dick (Trader) Lane. You know, trade the Home run leader from the previous season (Rocky Colovito) for the Batting Average Leader the previous season (Harvy Kuehn)). However, unfortunately, he's dead.

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