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Thread: Do the Reds have a case of the "Bungles?"

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  1. #1
    CEO - Hal Morris Fanclub OC_Red's Avatar
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    Do the Reds have a case of the "Bungles?"

    There has been a lot of discussion flying around both in the media and in the Reds fan community around causes for the Reds' poor showing vs those teams that are the cream of the crop in MLB.

    I have a further thought, based a bit on comments from Leake and Lecure about the game yesterday, and on Doc's latest TML (which I normally ignore but it actually had a decent premise today).

    What if the Reds are becoming Bungle-ized? Let me explain...

    As a long suffering member of the the Bengals fan club I recall many, many, many painful games where the Bengals were basically defeated before the kickoff. Pretty much every game versus the Steelers and Ravens were that way for quite some time. The Bengals would be out there in body, but most definitely their minds were somewhere else, and the final score would often show it quite lopsidedly. They had basically already gotten to the point where they were defeated before the first snap.

    Now, what if that same thought process is creeping into the minds of a number of our Reds'? I am speaking more of when they play the Cards than any of the other teams above .500 that we play. It has gotten to the point, where it seems almost as if the towel is thrown in at the first signs of adversity against the Redbirds. I honestly think that there is a defeatist attitude that is creeping up on a few of the Reds players and if Dusty or someone doesn't step up and give a Bluto style speech soon, we could be seeing alot more blowouts whenever we play Louie.

    To go further, I believe a culture of winning needs to be established and maintained. I believe that Marvin Lewis over the years has been able to nurture that culture and now the Bengals believe they can beat anybody at anytime. I would like to see Dusty and his staff get that thought process firmly established in the locker room again. I feel like it has weakened a bit.

    Just a (hopefully) interesting thought I have been mulling over a bit this morning.

    What say you?

  2. #2
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Do the Reds have a case of the "Bungles?"

    No.

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    Member CmdrCody's Avatar
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    Re: Do the Reds have a case of the "Bungles?"

    No, but they do seem to not be playing with the same desire they showed last year.
    Reds fan since 1968 win or lose.

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    CEO - Hal Morris Fanclub OC_Red's Avatar
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    Re: Do the Reds have a case of the "Bungles?"

    Thanks for playing, Doug.

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    Re: Do the Reds have a case of the "Bungles?"

    I don't know if they're the Bungles. They have a history of winning the whole thing, something the Bungles are always swimming upstream against. But their collapses in the last two playoff appearances will have to be exorcised before they will play with that indomitable swagger that champions play with.

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    Public Enemy #1 Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: Do the Reds have a case of the "Bungles?"

    No, because I don't care about the Bengals.
    "Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."

  9. #7
    CEO - Hal Morris Fanclub OC_Red's Avatar
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    Re: Do the Reds have a case of the "Bungles?"

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Servo View Post
    No, because I don't care about the Bengals.
    It wasn't a direct comparison between the Reds and the Bengals. I was more looking at the current state of mind of the Reds against that of past Bengals teams. You could use any number of repeatedly downtrodden clubs as examples.

    Baseball is just as much a game of mental toughness as it is a physical sport. And it is played by humans, and as such those players can go through the same gamut of emotion we average joes do each day.

    So, when I say a case of the Bungles, I guess I mean more the feeling of despair one feels when you think you are outclassed/outgunned/out-everything by your opponent and the resultant poor play that is demonstrated from that.


    Sorry for any confusion and thanks for the discussion.

  10. #8
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Do the Reds have a case of the "Bungles?"

    Quote Originally Posted by OC_Red View Post
    It wasn't a direct comparison between the Reds and the Bengals. I was more looking at the current state of mind of the Reds against that of past Bengals teams. You could use any number of repeatedly downtrodden clubs as examples.

    Baseball is just as much a game of mental toughness as it is a physical sport. And it is played by humans, and as such those players can go through the same gamut of emotion we average joes do each day.

    So, when I say a case of the Bungles, I guess I mean more the feeling of despair one feels when you think you are outclassed/outgunned/out-everything by your opponent and the resultant poor play that is demonstrated from that.


    Sorry for any confusion and thanks for the discussion.
    Still no.

    If the Reds had that kind of thing going on, they wouldn't have won Saturday. They wouldn't have won the first two games in San Francisco last year in the playoffs.

    Things happen. There isn't always some alternate explanation for it other than those dudes on the other side were just better.

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    Re: Do the Reds have a case of the "Bungles?"

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Still no.

    If the Reds had that kind of thing going on, they wouldn't have won Saturday. They wouldn't have won the first two games in San Francisco last year in the playoffs.

    Things happen. There isn't always some alternate explanation for it other than those dudes on the other side were just better.
    Teams choke. Not saying the Reds are right now, but it's not as though teams and players can't psychologically seal the deal.

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    Re: Do the Reds have a case of the "Bungles?"

    No, They are the victims of the injury bug.

  14. #11
    Member CmdrCody's Avatar
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    Re: Do the Reds have a case of the "Bungles?"

    I remember the Big Red Machine, those guys felt they were going to win every night. The only weakness for most of the BRM days was a short series against hot pitchers.
    Reds fan since 1968 win or lose.

  15. #12
    Member CmdrCody's Avatar
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    Re: Do the Reds have a case of the "Bungles?"

    My post was that's the type of swagger these guys need. But they need to back it up also.
    Reds fan since 1968 win or lose.

  16. #13
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    Re: Do the Reds have a case of the "Bungles?"

    The Reds have lost their ace, their left fielder and only guy who really profiles as a cleanup hitter, arguably their best reliever and lefty setup man, a reliever who was signed to be the closer before Chappy went back to his role (2 of their 3 top bullpen arms), their veteran catcher has played banged up and half speed all season when he is even on the field, BP has battled a couple "hurt but playing" injuries, their 4th OFer - the one with power - missed most of the first half leaving them with almost no power from the bench, with no protection pitchers have become even more wary of Votto taking the bat from his hands in any kind of dangerous situation. And it hasn't been first one guy, then he comes back and another goes on the DL - its been all at the same time and for long periods of time.

    The Reds are built to win with a mostly healthy roster - they aren't deep enough on the farm right now to deal with too many injuries. And that lack of farm depth also plays a role in tying Walt's hands. We are in a lull between the group of young prospects reaching the upper levels and those upper levels being a bit bare because of trades that got the Reds the roster to compete in the first place. I don't see the great head scratcher understanding their struggles this year.

  17. #14
    CEO - Hal Morris Fanclub OC_Red's Avatar
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    Re: Do the Reds have a case of the "Bungles?"

    Good thoughts all, I tend to agree that overall this season comes down to health of the talent we have and a lack of talent to replace it.

    Thank you for elaborating Doug, and I agree to a point with you. I never meant to imply the Cards are in the entire teams' head, but when you have guys making comments like "they have us mostly figured out, and we need to figure them out..." that makes me wonder (I paraphrased a bit but I believe that was Leake who said that).

    RedlegJake, and Commander Cody, no question injuries have really hurt the Reds this year. They were very fortunate to not have so many injuries to so many key pieces of the team last year. (minus losing Votto, but Ludwick and Frazier performed admirably to replace his bat)

    At any rate, I've enjoyed reading responses so far, thanks all!

  18. #15
    Custodial Engineer Bob Sheed's Avatar
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    Re: Do the Reds have a case of the "Bungles?"

    No Mike Brown for the Reds, so no.

    Bob doesn't handicap his own team for personal profit, so no.

    Bob doesn't sit in on coaches meetings and suggest that they "try Votto in CF", so no.

    Bob doesn't create a culture of losing, so no.
    "And why do false truths persist, getting passed down the decades as if they were fact? It comes back to the same point: People believe things that are wrong because, individually, people rarely investigate their own beliefs, particularly when what they believe makes sense intuitively. Even more so when those around them agree with them." -K.F.


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