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Thread: A Little More From Joey V

  1. #166
    Matt's Dad RANDY IN INDY's Avatar
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    Re: A Little More From Joey V

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44 View Post
    The thing about the Votto RBI discussion is, I would understand it if he has been bad with RISP. But he's hitting over .300 with RISP. What is he supposed to do? Hit .500?
    I think that hitting with RISP is very important on winning teams. With that said, Joey Votto is the least of the Reds problems. I wish the Reds had more hitters of Votto's ilk.
    Talent is God Given: be humble.
    Fame is man given: be thankful.
    Conceit is self given: be careful.

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  4. #167
    Mon chou Choo vaticanplum's Avatar
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    Re: A Little More From Joey V

    My god, Paul Daugherty sounds like he's standing in his treehouse with a bb gun, defending his work for the middle school newspaper. Nyah nyah boo boo.
    There is no such thing as a pitching prospect.

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  6. #168
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: A Little More From Joey V

    Quote Originally Posted by RANDY IN INDY View Post
    I think that hitting with RISP is very important on winning teams. With that said, Joey Votto is the least of the Reds problems. I wish the Reds had more hitters of Votto's ilk.
    Hitting that scores runs at any time is important. Noting where the runners were when they scored and assigning value makes an assumption that there is a skill involved. That is the point that needs proven, and I do not think it will be done. It is the old "clutch" question, and I think that has been clearly proven a myth some time ago.

    So, testing your statement, the Reds are a "winning team," yet I think they have poor numbers in this area. Explain.
    Can't win with 'em

    Can't win without 'em

  7. #169
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: A Little More From Joey V

    Quote Originally Posted by vaticanplum View Post
    My god, Paul Daugherty sounds like he's standing in his treehouse with a bb gun, defending his work for the middle school newspaper. Nyah nyah boo boo.
    My question, did he make a blog post regarding Votto's GW fly ball Sunday? Is Xavier Paul now a valuable hitter because he had a well-timed, PH home run Sunday? Is he "clutch" now?
    Can't win with 'em

    Can't win without 'em

  8. #170
    Member Norm Chortleton's Avatar
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    Re: A Little More From Joey V

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    So, testing your statement, the Reds are a "winning team," yet I think they have poor numbers in this area. Explain.
    Pitching

  9. #171
    Member NebraskaRed's Avatar
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    Re: A Little More From Joey V

    I've said it before, but I have no idea why they pay that man to write about a sport he doesn't seem to particularly enjoy.

  10. #172
    Member OesterPoster's Avatar
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    Re: A Little More From Joey V

    I can't believe I just read that Doc drivel. And I'm not even talking about the Votto rip piece. I'm talking about his horrible analysis of the Breaking Bad premiere.

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  12. #173
    nothing more than a fan Always Red's Avatar
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    Re: A Little More From Joey V

    Quote Originally Posted by OesterPoster View Post
    I can't believe I just read that Doc drivel. And I'm not even talking about the Votto rip piece. I'm talking about his horrible analysis of the Breaking Bad premiere.
    The garage scene was epic, a showdown after 5 years of waiting for it to happen. I had to remind myself to breathe.

    "If that's true, if you don't know who I am, then maybe your best course would be to tread lightly."
    Last edited by Always Red; 08-13-2013 at 12:24 PM.

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  14. #174
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    Re: A Little More From Joey V

    Ive been bothered more and more, especially now that ludwick is back. By BP not batting 2nd. And bruce 4th.

    I think surrounding Votto by those two guys would help him out tremendously. Which in turn helps the team. I think votto would see more pitches And have more RBI opportunities.

  15. #175
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    Re: A Little More From Joey V

    Brandon has only driven himself in 15 times this year.

    Even Daugherty must see that in the other 74 cases at least some of the credit (actually quite a bit of the credit) belongs to:
    1.) The player that got on base in the first place
    2.) Any player that advanced the runner
    3.) Any player that avoided an out (extended the inning)

    Without the players doing their job in front of him Brandon would only have 15 RBIs. One of the reasons Brandon has so many RBIs is because Joey is very good at doing all of those three things.

    RBIs are not worthless, I don't think anyone believes that. They are, however, a very poor way to assess a player.

  16. #176
    Member NebraskaRed's Avatar
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    Re: A Little More From Joey V

    Quote Originally Posted by puca View Post
    Brandon has only driven himself in 15 times this year.

    Even Daugherty must see that in the other 74 cases at least some of the credit (actually quite a bit of the credit) belongs to:
    1.) The player that got on base in the first place
    2.) Any player that advanced the runner
    3.) Any player that avoided an out (extended the inning)

    Without the players doing their job in front of him Brandon would only have 15 RBIs. One of the reasons Brandon has so many RBIs is because Joey is very good at doing all of those three things.

    RBIs are not worthless, I don't think anyone believes that. They are, however, a very poor way to assess a player.
    Agreed, but Daugherty's strange, immature, black/white way of thinking boils down to either RBIs are the most important stat in assessing a player, or they are entirely worthless all together. I know a lot of what he's doing is getting people upset in order to generate clicks on his articles, but I think he honestly does see things in this extreme, no gray area type of way. You'd think someone who gets paid to write (and therefore think) would display thinking that was a little more nuanced than that.

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  18. #177
    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
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    Re: A Little More From Joey V

    The sad part about this is that he places the win last night on Brandon's shoulders alone, completely ignoring the brilliant performance by Latos and the best 9th inning of Chapman's career.

    It truly amazes me people get paid money for articles like this.

  19. #178
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    Re: A Little More From Joey V

    I always thought baseball was a team sport. I want to thank Doc for correcting that false perception.

  20. #179
    Matt's Dad RANDY IN INDY's Avatar
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    Re: A Little More From Joey V

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    Hitting that scores runs at any time is important. Noting where the runners were when they scored and assigning value makes an assumption that there is a skill involved. That is the point that needs proven, and I do not think it will be done. It is the old "clutch" question, and I think that has been clearly proven a myth some time ago.

    So, testing your statement, the Reds are a "winning team," yet I think they have poor numbers in this area. Explain.
    Great pitching. I don't think there is anything clear or proven about being "clutch." Your opinion.
    Last edited by RANDY IN INDY; 08-13-2013 at 02:59 PM.
    Talent is God Given: be humble.
    Fame is man given: be thankful.
    Conceit is self given: be careful.

    John Wooden

  21. #180
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: A Little More From Joey V

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    Interesting, but you're missing the point. "Converting" baserunners is not a skill. Moreover, counting "ribbies" is not a meaningful measure. Its just a really noisy, traditional counting stat that does not provide any reliable data to calculate a hitter's value.

    It could not be more glaring than to get all warm and fuzzy about BP's "clutch" job in the 4 hole this year because he has had uncanny (and unsustainable) timing with his hits this year. He has masked a poor hitting year with pats on the back for "clutch ribbies" this year, and obligatory helmet tap with his bat, while Votto continues to be an elite hitter, worth every freaking penny of his contract, yet gets dogged for not "converting baserunners," whatever the heck that means.
    Shortening a swing up and putting the ball in play, leading to more runs driven in, definitely is a skill. Having the bat control to get the ball in the air or going opposite field definitely is a skill.

    Of course, we know Joey Votto possess those skills. That's not to in any way, shape or form say that Votto doesn't have it or isn't doing it. But I disagree strongly that knocking in base runners isn't a skill. Maybe not directly, but there are certainly things that lead directly to driving runners in.

    I think Votto's RBI% is mostly a product of fluctuation, though I'm not convinced his approach at the plate hasn't changed. I get the impression watching him that he's so hellbent this year on shortening up, he's not driving the ball nearly as often and he's had more 'weak' contact than usual.

    I will say one interesting thing is that his GB:FB rate is 1.60 this season. His previous career high mark in that department was 1.44. So he's definitely hitting more grounders and fewer fly balls.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

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