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Thread: A Little More From Joey V

  1. #151
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    Re: A Little More From Joey V

    Great game by joey. Again i liked to see him pulling the ball at least.

    However to play devils advocate and rally some of you guys up.

    His triple came with two strikes on him. Choked up and only had the power to make it off the wall.

    Just saying.

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  3. #152
    Hey Cubs Fans RFS62's Avatar
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    Re: A Little More From Joey V

    Quote Originally Posted by puca View Post
    And this relates to Votto how? Are you implying that he lacks that mental edge?

    This year is a departure from the norm for Votto. His career numbers are better with runners in scoring position than with no runners on. Are you claiming that he has lost his mental edge? Again I ask isn't it more likely a random fluctuation or possibly an indication that pitchers are less willing to give Votto anything good to hit in those situations than a sudden loss in 'clutchiness'.
    Good Lord!

    How on earth can you get that from what I said? I'm not talking specifically about Votto. I'm talking about every single player who has ever played the game and the wide variance in their mental approach.

    I think he has a stronger mental game and discipline than almost everyone in baseball, in fact. I think he is taking EXACTLY the mental approach in which he believes.

    I'm tossing out there for discussion a different aspect of ALL players mental games and how it relates to performance.

    And I'm putting it out there for consideration that it may be possible for a players individual approach to not fit the expectations of the manager to fill the role he expects.
    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
    ~ Mark Twain

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  5. #153
    Member Ironman92's Avatar
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    Re: A Little More From Joey V

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    Joey knows exactly what his job is. And he does it better than 99.997% of all major leaguers.
    at bat

  6. #154
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    Re: A Little More From Joey V

    Quote Originally Posted by RFS62 View Post
    Good Lord!

    How on earth can you get that from what I said? I'm not talking specifically about Votto. I'm talking about every single player who has ever played the game and the wide variance in their mental approach.

    I think he has a stronger mental game and discipline than almost everyone in baseball, in fact. I think he is taking EXACTLY the mental approach in which he believes.

    I'm tossing out there for discussion a different aspect of ALL players mental games and how it relates to performance.

    And I'm putting it out there for consideration that it may be possible for a players individual approach to not fit the expectations of the manager to fill the role he expects.
    In a nut shell. He's saying Votto is going up to the plate looking to drive a the ball in which ever direction he is given. Just not drive the ball out of the ball park. Per say. If that happens it happens. Part of his approach as well. Is he is only going to drive the pitch that he wants. So if he dont get it. He will either foul it off or take a walk. And with two strikes he changes to purely put the bat on the ball as long as it is a strike. But still very picky. I think votto is good at and sometimes even knows How to foul a ball off he doesnt want to hit. He has amazing bat control.

    But again. RFs6 is simply saying is that approach what the team needs in the 3 hole.

  7. #155
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    Re: A Little More From Joey V

    Quote Originally Posted by RFS62 View Post
    Good Lord!

    How on earth can you get that from what I said? I'm not talking specifically about Votto. I'm talking about every single player who has ever played the game and the wide variance in their mental approach.

    I think he has a stronger mental game and discipline than almost everyone in baseball, in fact. I think he is taking EXACTLY the mental approach in which he believes.

    I'm tossing out there for discussion a different aspect of ALL players mental games and how it relates to performance.

    And I'm putting it out there for consideration that it may be possible for a players individual approach to not fit the expectations of the manager to fill the role he expects.
    Sorry for not realizing that in a thread specifically discussing Joey Votto and the criticism he is receiving for not driving in runners (or not being 'clutch'), that your point about 'clutchiness' being related to a strong mental approach had nothing to do with Votto.

  8. #156
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: A Little More From Joey V

    Quote Originally Posted by puca View Post
    Sorry for not realizing that in a thread specifically discussing Joey Votto and the criticism he is receiving for not driving in runners (or not being 'clutch'), that your point about 'clutchiness' being related to a strong mental approach had nothing to do with Votto.
    Hey now, he was just "tossing it out there". That makes it kosher.

  9. #157
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: A Little More From Joey V

    Quote Originally Posted by RFS62 View Post

    How on earth can you get that from what I said? I'm not talking specifically about Votto. I'm talking about every single player who has ever played the game and the wide variance in their mental approach.

    .
    Bro,

    Thanks for the clarification, as I wasn't sure how it related to Joey myself.

    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

  10. #158
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: A Little More From Joey V

    Quote Originally Posted by puca View Post
    Funny, I never thought of Ted Williams as a new age ballplayer. I always just thought of him as a cerebral one.
    Ask Ted Williams' contemporaries what they thought about him. Ted Williams was way ahead of his time and got away with his approach in part because he was so amazing at it.

    If Votto had 80 RBI right now, nobody would be talking about his approach. He's having a poor year from an RBI conversation standpoint and while it has little bearing on his actual run production value, it drives some of the old school guys crazy that he's not doing "his job".

    Lucky for us and for Votto, his employer has no problem whatsoever with his approach and have guaranteed him a health paycheck for the next decade. If that bugs his boss, that's his boss's problem.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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  12. #159
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    Re: A Little More From Joey V

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    Ask Ted Williams' contemporaries what they thought about him. Ted Williams was way ahead of his time and got away with his approach in part because he was so amazing at it.

    If Votto had 80 RBI right now, nobody would be talking about his approach. He's having a poor year from an RBI conversation standpoint and while it has little bearing on his actual run production value, it drives some of the old school guys crazy that he's not doing "his job".

    Lucky for us and for Votto, his employer has no problem whatsoever with his approach and have guaranteed him a health paycheck for the next decade. If that bugs his boss, that's his boss's problem.
    Before moving on everyone needs to go check out Ted Williams career stats. Just insane and well beyond Vottoville. Talk about Williams approach but he also drove in 120+ runs 7x and would've been 10 if not for WW2.

    Career OB% .482? Lol

    If you look at the years before when he missed 3 years during WW2 and then the years after he came back and it's fair to assume had he not missed those 3 years....

    2200 runs
    2250 RBI
    3200 hits
    625 doubles
    625 hr
    2450 BB

  13. #160
    nothing more than a fan Always Red's Avatar
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    Re: A Little More From Joey V

    Paul Daugherty weighs in on "worthless RBI" and takes another shot at Votto:

    OBVIOUSLY, DDBP won the game last night with a couple worthless RBI. It would be great if we could get some acknowledgment from the StatHeads that RBI remain a relevant measure of a hitterís effectiveness. That, if we are going to gush eternally over another guyís glowing ability to reach base, we must also give credit to the man who makes his trip around the diamond worthwhile.

    Not sure what the hangup is here. Except, on occasion, the Runs-not-Ribbies Crowd can be averse to allowing viewpoints other than their own enter the discussion. They can be a lot like Soccer People. If you donít agree with them, itís not because you have a different take. It is because you are stupid.

    Iíve been stupid a lot. Ask Deadspin, (Actually, if Deadspin thought I was anything other than stupid, Iíd be worried.) Several years ago, the savants at the late website firejoemorgan.com thought I was stupid because I agreed with DBaker that ADunn might want to make a little more contact. Iím routinely stupid around here for suggesting a No. 3 hitter should have more RBI than J. Votto has. The only people who agree with me are Baker, Jocketty and Brennaman. A MOY, a HOFer and a guy with a couple of championship rings. Iím OK with that.

    I like numbers. Numbers add to my understanding and enjoyment of the game. I donít dislike those who put their trust in numbers that I dont always happen to abide by. The fact they think Iím a clod says more about them than it does about me.

    Congrats to Brandon Phillips, who won the game last night, with 2 RBI on one swing. Keep rackiní up those meaningless numbers, DD. Wins just might foillow.
    http://cincinnati.com/blogs/daughert...ow-mean-a-win/

    I'm not surprised to hear this from Brennaman or Daugherty, has anyone else here heard Baker or Jocketty saying Votto should be driving in more runs? Because that's what I think the man said here.

  14. #161
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    Re: A Little More From Joey V

    Paul D is a waste of reading time, folks move on past this boor and read Johan Keri at Grantland or Poz at NBC or anyone else with a pulse, Daugherty is not attempting to have a dialog in his attack on others POV he's simply saying he is right based on nothing more than saying that he is right.

    Reds fans deserve better than this

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  16. #162
    Worst Behavior. reds44's Avatar
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    Re: A Little More From Joey V

    The thing about the Votto RBI discussion is, I would understand it if he has been bad with RISP. But he's hitting over .300 with RISP. What is he supposed to do? Hit .500?
    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    Let's face it, you mis-hit the bun with the mustard squirter, no one will really care.

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  18. #163
    nothing more than a fan Always Red's Avatar
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    Re: A Little More From Joey V

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Paul D is a waste of reading time, folks move on past this boor and read Johan Keri at Grantland or Poz at NBC or anyone else with a pulse, Daugherty is not attempting to have a dialog in his attack on others POV he's simply saying he is right based on nothing more than saying that he is right.

    Reds fans deserve better than this
    Well, the only reason I quoted it today is because he leads one to believe that both Walt Jocketty and Dusty Baker have both let Daugherty know they want more RBI from Votto.

    First I've heard that the principals in the FO are not happy with Votto's "production."

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  20. #164
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    Re: A Little More From Joey V

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44 View Post
    The thing about the Votto RBI discussion is, I would understand it if he has been bad with RISP. But he's hitting over .300 with RISP. What is he supposed to do? Hit .500?
    Well, clearly he's supposed to control what other batters do at the plate in advance of him. And also control how fast other batters run, and whether someone is waved around third or held there.
    Last edited by NebraskaRed; 08-13-2013 at 12:04 PM.

  21. #165
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    Re: A Little More From Joey V

    Quote Originally Posted by Always Red View Post
    Well, the only reason I quoted it today is because he leads one to believe that both Walt Jocketty and Dusty Baker have both let Daugherty know they want more RBI from Votto.

    First I've heard that the principals in the FO are not happy with Votto's "production."
    Oh it should be quoted, and it should be noted that he refers to himself at least 12 times and draws a line in the sand with the YOU and THEM distinction

    What a hack

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