A Little More From Joey V

[WVPacman]

I am really getting tired of watching Votto not run but jog to first base.He joged twice to first base today with the bat still in his hand. Its not asking to much to want to see you hustle more does it? No it doesn't!!

[reds44]

I am really getting tired of watching Votto not run but jog to first base.He joged twice to first base today with the bat still in his hand. Its not asking to much to want to see you hustle more does it? No it doesn't!!

Yeah this is a huge problem and totally relevant to the success of the Reds this season.

I'm curious if some people watch these games and look for things to get upset about.

[WVPacman]

Yeah this is a huge problem and totally relevant to the success of the Reds this season.

I'm curious if some people watch these games and look for things to get upset about.

You seriously don't have a problem with a 2 hundred million dollar player not running full out down to 1st base? Its not just him a lot of players do it and its uncalled for when a error or anything could happen.jmo

[UPRedsFan]

No problem. It's a long season. Want him to stay healthy and keep his legs strong.

[WVPacman]

That just takes away from the game but that's jmo.

[kbrake]

I think Votto has looked frustrated lately. Hitting a ton of balls hard as possible but right at guys. If when he gets frustrated he jogs to first I can handle it. Fair or not the best players get a little more freedom. Cozart better be running hard. I don't care if Votto speed walks to first.

[OesterPoster]

Might need a new thread for this ESPN article. Nice work:

http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/po...votto-is-great

Just as baseball fans and pundits weaned themselves off of the pitcher win-loss record, they must now wean themselves off a hitter's RBI total. The stat is often more reflective of the players around a particular hitter than that particular hitter himself. If it happens in the next few months, perhaps Votto -- debatably deserving -- will wind up with the NL MVP Award and become the Felix Hernandez of RBIs.

[Always Red]

That is an awesome article and I'm glad to see it on ESPN and not Fangraphs, where a lot of preaching and teaching is heard only by the converts.

PDoc and Marty should be made to memorize that simple, straightforward article.

How is it that Votto has been so good and so underrated? The answer is many people still rely on runs batted in as the primary gauge of offensive success. This is true even in Cincinnati, where Reds broadcaster Marty Brennaman has made a habit out of disparaging the first baseman. Earlier this season, Brennaman said of Votto, "He's not paid to walk. ... He's paid to drive in runs." Later, he said "Saber people get all worked up" over walks.

[CySeymour]

That is an awesome article and I'm glad to see it on ESPN and not Fangraphs, where a lot of preaching and teaching is heard only by the converts.

PDoc and Marty should be made to memorize that simple, straightforward article.

Yet on the other hand, they would all fall over themselves to praise anyone who hits a weak groundball to second that moves a runner to third.

[reds44]

Interesting that Marty has decided what Joey is paid to do. I would imagine the man actually paying him (and Marty) is fine with his production.

[Hoosier Red]

I think the final step to climb for fans(and broadcasters/writers) is understanding the indirect benefits of a walk outweigh the direct benefits of an RBI out.

Basically, it is always better to not make an out than make an out.
Even if by walking you leave the work of driving a runner in to the guy behind you.

That's not to say a Sac Fly or an RBI groundout is useless. If you're going to make an out, it's better to make it a "productive" out than an "unproductive" out, but to the extent a batter can control it, it's better to not make an out at all.

[HeatherC1212]

Might need a new thread for this ESPN article. Nice work:

http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/po...votto-is-great

Fantastic article!

[traderumor]

Ok, checked Daugherty's blog, no commentary on last night's game, thought for sure he'd take a dig about Votto hitting a GW homer.......oh wait, that's not his agenda. However, just reading his comments about the Reds in his 8/15, please, for the love of baseball, quit writing about baseball, PD. You have not a clue, sir.

[Always Red]

Interesting that Marty has decided what Joey is paid to do. I would imagine the man actually paying him (and Marty) is fine with his production.

Not according to Paul Daugherty, which is why I bumped this thread the other day. In his blog he stated that Marty, Dusty and Jocketty were all in agreement with him that Joey Votto should be "producing" more.

I've never read that anywhere else, have not seen any of those mentioned even address it. I think it was fabricated out of thin air.

[Always Red]

That's not to say a Sac Fly or an RBI groundout is useless. If you're going to make an out, it's better to make it a "productive" out than an "unproductive" out, but to the extent a batter can control it, it's better to not make an out at all.

I agree, moving the runner along with a ground out, a sacrifice fly, or even a bunt is ok with me, but only depending on who is hitting.

I want Zach Cozart, since he can't hit, to be able to bunt or move a guy along with a ground out. Or the pitcher to do these things. Zach Cozart should be a world championship bunter. He'd at least be making a few more "productive" outs that way.

But not Votto, Choo, Bruce or Phillips. Or even Mes now, he's proven that he can be a dangerous hitter.