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Thread: 2013 EPL Thread

  1. #46
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: 2013 EPL Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BuckeyeRed27 View Post
    Ozil on his way to arsenal?
    I may start following Arsenal a little more. Ozil has been my favorite player to watch since the last World Cup.

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    Re: 2013 EPL Thread

    Ozil is just an amazing signing for Arsenal. They still probably need another striker, but I believe they can be competitive with this team. I would imagine this would move Walcott more up top where he wants to be anyways.

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    Re: 2013 EPL Thread

    As a Real Madrid fan, I'm gut-punched over essentially swapping out Ozil and €50 million for Gareth Bale. Ozil is so much better than Bale, who is nowhere near worth what Madrid paid for him.

    At some point this season I expect we'll be reading reports that there's talk Bale is only playing over more worthy teammates because of the obscene amount of money the club paid for and pays to him. Meanwhile, Ozil is going to tear up the EPL. Arsenal still needs to find a DM and upgrade its fullbacks, but Ozil and Cazorla will torment opposing teams.

    Meanwhile, Everton had itself a very good summer. This is probably the deepest Everton team in more than a decade. There's seven legit teams in England this season.
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    Re: 2013 EPL Thread

    Chelsea loses today at home in the Champions League against Basel. Combined with the loss against Everton over the weekend, that constitutes a full-blown crisis for the Blues.
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    Re: 2013 EPL Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    As a Real Madrid fan, I'm gut-punched over essentially swapping out Ozil and €50 million for Gareth Bale. Ozil is so much better than Bale, who is nowhere near worth what Madrid paid for him.

    At some point this season I expect we'll be reading reports that there's talk Bale is only playing over more worthy teammates because of the obscene amount of money the club paid for and pays to him. Meanwhile, Ozil is going to tear up the EPL. Arsenal still needs to find a DM and upgrade its fullbacks, but Ozil and Cazorla will torment opposing teams.

    Meanwhile, Everton had itself a very good summer. This is probably the deepest Everton team in more than a decade. There's seven legit teams in England this season.


    My father has been a Real Madrid fan since the late 50's when he was living in Uruguay and a couple of players went over there.

    I always liked the underdog and nowadays teams like RM and the likes....they just buy whoever they want and basically it seems to me....bully/badger other clubs to give up their player. It is disgusting to me.....like watching The Yankees before at least the Salary tax.

    It does not help that every world class player seems to "Dream of playing for RM" or Barcelona.

    Not getting on your case for your pick of teams...but I can barely watch La Liga. The two teams are catered to like whiny babies with not enough milk. IF they are being outplayed on a very rare game.....they get a call out of nowhere or just dive and simulate beyond belief.

    Does that league not realize ..even in this day and age how you have to share your TV revenue? Every team except for maybe Atletico Madrid recently or Valencia....is just a development club for those 2 big clubs.

  7. #51
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    Re: 2013 EPL Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Cloninger View Post
    My father has been a Real Madrid fan since the late 50's when he was living in Uruguay and a couple of players went over there.

    I always liked the underdog and nowadays teams like RM and the likes....they just buy whoever they want and basically it seems to me....bully/badger other clubs to give up their player. It is disgusting to me.....like watching The Yankees before at least the Salary tax.

    It does not help that every world class player seems to "Dream of playing for RM" or Barcelona.

    Not getting on your case for your pick of teams...but I can barely watch La Liga. The two teams are catered to like whiny babies with not enough milk. IF they are being outplayed on a very rare game.....they get a call out of nowhere or just dive and simulate beyond belief.

    Does that league not realize ..even in this day and age how you have to share your TV revenue? Every team except for maybe Atletico Madrid recently or Valencia....is just a development club for those 2 big clubs.
    I went to Madrid in 1987. One evening everybody in the city stuck their heads out the window and screamed. Everybody. Some people ran out onto sidewalks and started dancing. I asked what happened (I was thinking this was Star Trek "Festival!" moment about to go down). Someone explained Real Madrid must have just scored a goal. From that moment, I was hooked.

    Madrid does spend some stupid amounts of money. It has the money to spend, but Bale was a case of spending just to spend it. Yet it makes a lot of good buys along the way and you get to watch great games and amazing players. Being married to a Yankees fan I can confirm being a Real Madrid fan is a similar experience: every year is filled with excitement and expectation, your let-downs are other clubs' high points. It's a sweet ride.

    I disagree about the league stuff. Yes, the TV money split is stupid, but the refs don't give Madrid and Barcelona extra calls. Any extra calls it may seem like they get are really just a function of them having so much more of the ball. La Liga players don't dive more than players in other leagues (there's no shortage of diving in the EPL for instance). Barca is the divingest team in the league, which is unfortunate because they're so good they really don't need to dive.

    As for the quality of the league, Spain and Germany are the two deepest and most talented leagues in the world. Spanish clubs dominate the Europa Cup competition, and they dominated the UEFA Cup before it. Mid and lower table Spanish teams are loaded with talent and most of them play with style. The Madrid-Barcelona TV domination means a lot of people don't get to see those other teams in action beyond their games against the Big Two, but those are quality teams.
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  9. #52
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    Re: 2013 EPL Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    Madrid does spend some stupid amounts of money. It has the money to spend, but Bale was a case of spending just to spend it. Yet it makes a lot of good buys along the way and you get to watch great games and amazing players. Being married to a Yankees fan I can confirm being a Real Madrid fan is a similar experience: every year is filled with excitement and expectation, your let-downs are other clubs' high points. It's a sweet ride.
    I just never got all the love for Bale. In watching Tottenham last season they were fun to watch. And there was no doubt that Bale was a good player. He never looked like the guy who was considered the best player on the transfer market. In the limited amount of soccer I have watched I have always thought in the big games its the teams who have the best midfielders win the game. The teams that control the midfield are able to control most of the games. I always thought of Bale as a more attacking midfielder. And to be honest thought that Ozil was a better overall player.

    I agree with you that RM went out and paid the highest transfer fee ever for Bale for little reason. Heck they went out and got Modric the year before to play a position they were already loaded at. I probably will never fully understand the transfer window but it appears as if over the past few seasons RM has gone out and paid for players to replace in house players who were actually better.

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    Re: 2013 EPL Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    I went to Madrid in 1987. One evening everybody in the city stuck their heads out the window and screamed. Everybody. Some people ran out onto sidewalks and started dancing. I asked what happened (I was thinking this was Star Trek "Festival!" moment about to go down). Someone explained Real Madrid must have just scored a goal. From that moment, I was hooked.

    Madrid does spend some stupid amounts of money. It has the money to spend, but Bale was a case of spending just to spend it. Yet it makes a lot of good buys along the way and you get to watch great games and amazing players. Being married to a Yankees fan I can confirm being a Real Madrid fan is a similar experience: every year is filled with excitement and expectation, your let-downs are other clubs' high points. It's a sweet ride.

    I disagree about the league stuff. Yes, the TV money split is stupid, but the refs don't give Madrid and Barcelona extra calls. Any extra calls it may seem like they get are really just a function of them having so much more of the ball. La Liga players don't dive more than players in other leagues (there's no shortage of diving in the EPL for instance). Barca is the divingest team in the league, which is unfortunate because they're so good they really don't need to dive.

    As for the quality of the league, Spain and Germany are the two deepest and most talented leagues in the world. Spanish clubs dominate the Europa Cup competition, and they dominated the UEFA Cup before it. Mid and lower table Spanish teams are loaded with talent and most of them play with style. The Madrid-Barcelona TV domination means a lot of people don't get to see those other teams in action beyond their games against the Big Two, but those are quality teams.

    Very good points.

    Barcelona does dive when things do not go their way....it can be to me embarrassing for them considering their talent.

    I should not talk about diving much as....being from Uruguay....one of the biggest simulators is from there. Most EPL fans would say the diving comes from more foreign players coming in....although Bale I would consider a big time diver when he needs to do it.

    I just thought La Liga when AM and Villareal in the early part of the 2000 decade, along with Valencia had broken the RM and Barca domination but the other teams just cannot keep up with their money and in Spain...those 2 teams are too big too fail.

  11. #54
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    Re: 2013 EPL Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    Spanish clubs dominate the Europa Cup competition, and they dominated the UEFA Cup before it. Mid and lower table Spanish teams are loaded with talent and most of them play with style. The Madrid-Barcelona TV domination means a lot of people don't get to see those other teams in action beyond their games against the Big Two, but those are quality teams.
    I can't remember what article I was reading, but someone pointed out the influx of Spanish players into other European leagues was a product of the depth of talent combined with the desperate need for cash by every club that isn't Real Madrid or Barcelona. La Liga is where the bargain talent is.

    But bringing this back to the EPL, there does seem to be something slightly weird about a system where a team can afford to spend whatever eight-figure sum it takes to buy another team's star player, even though the player can't crack mega-club's top eleven and the original club could desperately use him to stay up. I'm thinking specifically of the Man U-Crystal Palace Zaha transaction although that's certainly far from the only one. But then, I'm not as hard-core as many soccer fans, so there may be a big picture I'm missing.

    Of course, as a Reds fan, I'm conditioned to roll my eyes at rich clubs that believe we exist to develop players for them.
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    Re: 2013 EPL Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by IslandRed View Post
    I can't remember what article I was reading, but someone pointed out the influx of Spanish players into other European leagues was a product of the depth of talent combined with the desperate need for cash by every club that isn't Real Madrid or Barcelona. La Liga is where the bargain talent is.

    But bringing this back to the EPL, there does seem to be something slightly weird about a system where a team can afford to spend whatever eight-figure sum it takes to buy another team's star player, even though the player can't crack mega-club's top eleven and the original club could desperately use him to stay up. I'm thinking specifically of the Man U-Crystal Palace Zaha transaction although that's certainly far from the only one. But then, I'm not as hard-core as many soccer fans, so there may be a big picture I'm missing.

    Of course, as a Reds fan, I'm conditioned to roll my eyes at rich clubs that believe we exist to develop players for them.
    I think the transfer market is the biggest thing that is broken in international football. I find it ridiculous that you can have world class talent riding the bench on top clubs when they could be starting for most of the other teams in their league. There is no reason for teams to stockpile talent like they do other than to keep other teams from having it.
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    Re: 2013 EPL Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Yachtzee View Post
    I think the transfer market is the biggest thing that is broken in international football. I find it ridiculous that you can have world class talent riding the bench on top clubs when they could be starting for most of the other teams in their league. There is no reason for teams to stockpile talent like they do other than to keep other teams from having it.
    If you're going to compete for your league, the UCL and your national cup, you need a deep team. Injuries will happen. Players will lose form. Rest is essential, especially if a big chunk of your squad also gets called away for international duty.

    One of Arsenal's big problems during the past decade is it's been thin. Once you get past the starting unit there isn't a lot there. To be fair, it also plays a style that requires regular action in order to stay sharp.

    As for less wealthy clubs, if a player hits what you think might be his maximum value, then you've got to consider selling him. 15 million for Zaha is a fairly good haul. Swansea bought half of its squad with the 15 million it got for Joe Allen. Check out what Newcastle bought with the 35 million it got for Andy Carroll. The combined current market value of those players is now 57 million (counting the 7 million Newcastle already received for Demba Ba). That's on top of a 5th place finish in 2012 and run into the Europa League quarterfinals last season.
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    Re: 2013 EPL Thread

    And three assists today for Ozil, bringing his total with Arsenal to four. Two games and he's already got twice as many assists as anybody else in the EPL.
    Last edited by M2; 09-22-2013 at 12:13 PM.
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    Re: 2013 EPL Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    And three assists today for Ozil, bringing his total with Arsenal to four. Two games and he's already got twice as many assists as anybody else in the EPL.
    Good things happening for Arsenal. They are doing this with several key players injured too.

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    Re: 2013 EPL Thread

    City crushing ManU 3-0 early in the 2nd half. Pellegrini has City hunting in packs.
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    Re: 2013 EPL Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    If you're going to compete for your league, the UCL and your national cup, you need a deep team. Injuries will happen. Players will lose form. Rest is essential, especially if a big chunk of your squad also gets called away for international duty.

    One of Arsenal's big problems during the past decade is it's been thin. Once you get past the starting unit there isn't a lot there. To be fair, it also plays a style that requires regular action in order to stay sharp.

    As for less wealthy clubs, if a player hits what you think might be his maximum value, then you've got to consider selling him. 15 million for Zaha is a fairly good haul. Swansea bought half of its squad with the 15 million it got for Joe Allen. Check out what Newcastle bought with the 35 million it got for Andy Carroll. The combined current market value of those players is now 57 million (counting the 7 million Newcastle already received for Demba Ba). That's on top of a 5th place finish in 2012 and run into the Europa League quarterfinals last season.
    I just think it's sad that you can have a Real Madrid and a Barcelona spend so much on players they could split each team in two and field Champions League quality teams, yet other teams and leagues have essentially been priced out of competing. Living in Europe in the mid-90s, I can remember when you had 10 countries that could field strong contenders for the Champions League finals. The Netherlands, France, Portugal, Greece, Turkey, Sweden, Denmark, and even Romania and Serbia had clubs with a good shot at getting to the finals. Now I feel like only teams from the big four of Spain, England, Italy, and Germany have a real shot of lifting the trophy. Teams from other leagues only seem to have a real shot in the Europa League, and even that is getting to be tough as foreign money pours into the big four.

    And while it's nice that Swansea and Newcastle can sell a few players to finance their squad, the money only lasts so long. If they don't develop new players to sell, teams like those risk relegation, and worse, administration if they have one bad season.

    I think European football would be far more interesting if the financial stucture allowed more teams to compete without having to sell their best players to Real Madrid, Barcelona, Chelsea, Man City, or Man U.
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