4 Days in October

[lidspinner]

I have watched billy several times in person....I have watched Drob about 4 times in person....once as a starter and 3 times as a runner or late defensive replacement....Drob is fast, real fast and billy and him might be close when it comes to actual times.....but billy is on another level when he hits the ball and and is running the bases....he could use some help in the first move department when stealing but he more than makes up for it.

With that said, billy needs to be on the playoff roster...plain and simple. We could use 2 speed guys. It's the playoffs, you play each game like its your last so it's not like our starters need rest. Bench players are strictly pinch hitters, or runners...we should have at least 1 if not 2 pitchers that can come in from the pen and go deep if that's what's needed.

Billy Hamilton hits ground balls to 2nd base and the second baseman has to rush the throw each and every time.

[powersackers]

We don't have a show walk machine like Millar on our team.

[Boston Red]

Living that in Boston in '04 was great. Still re-living it 9 years later is kind of annoying. Boston fans can grate with the best of them.

[AtomicDumpling]

Per Rotoworld:

Reds general manager Walt Jocketty said the team is undecided about whether Billy Hamilton will be called up next month.
Hamilton is batting only .256/.309/.343 this season, but he's hit .302/.343/.385 since the All-Star Break and .367 over his last seven games. He's also stolen 69 bases and, at the very least, could be useful as a pinch-runner in September. The speedster would need to be added to the 40-man roster, though. "Our problem is the 40-man roster," Jocketty said. "We don’t have lot of spots."

[mth123]

I agree that having Robinson on the playoff roster would be nice and he does deserve it. But wouldn't it make sense to leave Hannahan off the roster for Hamilton?

What does Hannahan bring to the table? A backup 3B with no power, below average defense (lately), terrible batting average, and a lefty bat?

We have Paul for a pinch hitting power lefty bat. Izturis, Robinson, and Hamilton are all switch hitters so they can bat lefty too. Plus would Frazier ever come out of the game at 3B barring injury? Not to mention, Izturis has some experience at the 3B anyways to fill in for an emergency (Frazier injured).

I think Hannahan is an obvious guy to leave off the roster for the exact reasons you list. I'd still rather have a 12 man staff. Short of a starter having a dominant night, I still think the best way to win in a short series is to have waves of pitchers with differing looks and stuff to throw at the opposition so that the hitters can't adjust to the pitcher as the game wears on. I wouldn't keep Ondrusek around for such a purpose, but if Say Cueto could return, I'd go with all 6 starters (with 2 pitching each game) and a pen of Chapman, Broxton, Hoover, Parra, Lecure and Simon. If Cueto can't get back, I might consider adding Stephenson as the 12th pitcher.

My 13 position players would be Hanigan, Mesoraco, Votto, Phillips, Cozart, Frazier, Ludwick, Paul, Heisey, Choo, Bruce and Hamilton.

[mth123]

Per Rotoworld:

Reds general manager Walt Jocketty said the team is undecided about whether Billy Hamilton will be called up next month.
Hamilton is batting only .256/.309/.343 this season, but he's hit .302/.343/.385 since the All-Star Break and .367 over his last seven games. He's also stolen 69 bases and, at the very least, could be useful as a pinch-runner in September. The speedster would need to be added to the 40-man roster, though. "Our problem is the 40-man roster," Jocketty said. "We don’t have lot of spots."

I think this is just being politically correct, I don't think they'd worry about having to cut Lotzkar, Ravin or even Villareal or H-Rod. They'd probably want to keep Corky on so they'd have an extra catcher for the post-season if some one gets hurt. They could also recall Justin Freeman and place him on the 60 day DL. That would actually be smart because they could use his slot to sneak another pitcher onto the play-off roster. If Cueto isn't coming back, he can go on the 60 day DL as well.

[joshua]

If there's room, bring him on up. Just his reputation alone would have the pitcher's attention on 1st base more so than with the usual runner on.

[BungleBengals]

During last night's game, a scenario reminded of this exact discussion.

Top of the 9th and a tie game. Hanigan is walked. I know we put Mez in as a PR and eventual defensive replacement, but this would have been the prime opportunity for Hamilton to come in. The bunt by Izturis was a lucky bounce to Navarro to throw to second, but Hamilton would have likely made it a closer play, if not safe at second. So instead of 1 out and a guy on first, you have 1 out a guy on second. Or just have him steal and you have 0 outs and a guy on second, with a good chance to bunt him over to third with 1 out.

Then come the bottom of the 9th, you have Mez ready to catch Chap for the win.

Just seems invaluable to be able to produce runs this way in a close game down the stretch or in the playoffs, especially if we are in a one game play in.

[reds44]

During last night's game, a scenario reminded of this exact discussion.

Top of the 9th and a tie game. Hanigan is walked. I know we put Mez in as a PR and eventual defensive replacement, but this would have been the prime opportunity for Hamilton to come in. The bunt by Izturis was a lucky bounce to Navarro to throw to second, but Hamilton would have likely made it a closer play, if not safe at second. So instead of 1 out and a guy on first, you have 1 out a guy on second. Or just have him steal and you have 0 outs and a guy on second, with a good chance to bunt him over to third with 1 out.

Then come the bottom of the 9th, you have Mez ready to catch Chap for the win.

Just seems invaluable to be able to produce runs this way in a close game down the stretch or in the playoffs, especially if we are in a one game play in.

I don't disagree with this, but the question is do the Reds trust Hamilton to do anything other than pinch run? If not, does that warrant a playoff spot?

[BungleBengals]

We don't have a show walk machine like Millar on our team.

Hanigan? Ludwick? Maybe for Paul or Heisey if they are used as a PH in the pitcher spot?

I think Hannahan is an obvious guy to leave off the roster for the exact reasons you list. I'd still rather have a 12 man staff. Short of a starter having a dominant night, I still think the best way to win in a short series is to have waves of pitchers with differing looks and stuff to throw at the opposition so that the hitters can't adjust to the pitcher as the game wears on. I wouldn't keep Ondrusek around for such a purpose, but if Say Cueto could return, I'd go with all 6 starters (with 2 pitching each game) and a pen of Chapman, Broxton, Hoover, Parra, Lecure and Simon. If Cueto can't get back, I might consider adding Stephenson as the 12th pitcher.

My 13 position players would be Hanigan, Mesoraco, Votto, Phillips, Cozart, Frazier, Ludwick, Paul, Heisey, Choo, Bruce and Hamilton.

I like that you agree with me that Hannahan needs to be left off. However, I think that for pitchers, we would be fine keeping 11. If we are keeping 6 starters then Simon is not needed as one starter can replace him as the long man. If we keep 5 starters, we do not need Simon either as you would have one starter likely to be the long man (prob Cingrani or Bailey) and you can have Stephenson as another long man too. Also, LeCure could likely be a long man as well as he started a few games for us a couple years ago.

This way you can have both Hamilton and Robinson on the bench. Primarily use Hamilton as a PR and Robinson as a defensive replacement in LF or CF if Choo's ankle starts up again.

Having two speedy guys is very crucial IMO for pivotal games or playoff games. Our normal 8 guys are all back to being healthy, so having backups in the playoffs are not as pressing of an issue and we can afford to leave someone like Hannahan off the roster to make room for Hamilton and Robinson to come up and add something to this team that not many, if any of our guys possess in speed.

[BungleBengals]

I don't disagree with this, but the question is do the Reds trust Hamilton to do anything other than pinch run? If not, does that warrant a playoff spot?

I am sure it is going to take a lot for them to trust him, but Hamilton does have experience playing both CF and SS. I am not saying his defensive versatility would be trustworthy or warrant a spot in any way, but if worst comes to worse, he could be a fill in at either position.

However, if they soley want him to be a pinch runner, I think that definitely warrants a playoff spot on this roster. Tie games or 1 run games going into the 8th or 9th would be a perfect opportunity to use him.

My biggest move for this to happen is to keep Hannahan off the roster. He offers little to no value in any aspect besides being the only backup 3B. Luckily, Frazier has been healthy and Izturis has played there some before too if Frazier happens to get hurt.

[REDREAD]

No there is always a loophole to get players added onto playoff roster who were added after August 31st using players on the DL I believe.

Yea. My speculation is that Corky was put on the DL so that the Reds would have an "open slot" to put any position player on the playoff roster. Much like Negron was last year.

Walt is pretty smart at manipulating these rules

[REDREAD]

I agree that having Robinson on the playoff roster would be nice and he does deserve it. But wouldn't it make sense to leave Hannahan off the roster for Hamilton?

What does Hannahan bring to the table? A backup 3B with no power, below average defense (lately), terrible batting average, and a lefty bat?
.

We need two backup infielders on the playoff roster, so Hannahan has to stay.
What if a starting infielder gets a minor injury and is only out 1 or 2 days? Then the Reds are in a big quandry.. do you DL the starting infielder or play with no backup infielders? Not worth the risk to add a pinchruner, IMO.

I'd rather the Reds drop Logan off the playoff roster if they wanted to add Hamilton or DRob.

[mth123]

Hanigan? Ludwick? Maybe for Paul or Heisey if they are used as a PH in the pitcher spot?



I like that you agree with me that Hannahan needs to be left off. However, I think that for pitchers, we would be fine keeping 11. If we are keeping 6 starters then Simon is not needed as one starter can replace him as the long man. If we keep 5 starters, we do not need Simon either as you would have one starter likely to be the long man (prob Cingrani or Bailey) and you can have Stephenson as another long man too. Also, LeCure could likely be a long man as well as he started a few games for us a couple years ago.

This way you can have both Hamilton and Robinson on the bench. Primarily use Hamilton as a PR and Robinson as a defensive replacement in LF or CF if Choo's ankle starts up again.

Having two speedy guys is very crucial IMO for pivotal games or playoff games. Our normal 8 guys are all back to being healthy, so having backups in the playoffs are not as pressing of an issue and we can afford to leave someone like Hannahan off the roster to make room for Hamilton and Robinson to come up and add something to this team that not many, if any of our guys possess in speed.

Nope. I want 4 or 5 fresh arms to be available every game. Unless a starter is "on," he wouldn't go through a line-up more than twice. One of the spare starters, with a different look, would go the 3rd time through the order. Then the 6 man relief corps takes over at the same point in the game where they normally would. I'd piggy back guys. For instance, Latos would start with his power stuff and Leake would come in with his soft stuff for the 3rd time through the order. Bailey would start and Cingrani would come in throwing lefty. Arroyo would start with his pitching accumen and Cueto would come in with his power stuff. Then play the match-up game with the 6 regular pen guys from the 7th inning on. They need to have plenty of arms available so they won't be afraid to burn a guy to get out one hitter that he matches up well with. Need lots of arms that don't suck (no Ondrusek) available to do that. I think keeping those hitters off balance and not letting them get comfortable by facing a tiring arm for the 3rd time on the day is more useful than getting those 2 PAs that the 25th man may get to ground out weakly to 2B or pop to SS.