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Thread: Joe Morgan wants Pete in the Hall

  1. #76
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    Re: Joe Morgan wants Pete in the Hall

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R View Post
    Apologies for going off on a tangent here but does anyone else think Pete's suspension was ultimately a good thing for the Reds on the field? Obviously they won the Series the next year but there are probably people who believe the Reds would have had the same result with Pete as the manager.

    Let's say Pete never gambled on baseball and was thus never suspended. How tough would it have been to fire him if the Reds underperformed? Marge loved him to pieces and while she wanted to win, she seemed to value interpersonal relationships more than the results on the field. If Marge herself had never been suspended and the Reds under Pete had records similar to the teams in the 00s, would she have stuck with Pete or bit the bullet and let him go? If she did, could you imagine the firestorm that would have followed?
    IMO, I doubt the Reds would have fired him. Especially as long as Marge owned the team. I'm afraid the Reds would have been about what they were under Pete. Underachieving a bit and coming up short most seasons. Pete wans't a very good manager. He had trouble getting along with players and if he didn't like one he went to the GM and told him he wanted them gone. You have to find a way to get along with most players and I think Pete had a lot of trouble with that.
    Reds Fan Since 1971

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  3. #77
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    Re: Joe Morgan wants Pete in the Hall

    [QUOTE=George Anderson;2938473]
    Quote Originally Posted by BungleBengals View Post

    Rose has had 25 years to do a talk circuit to warn the youth of the dangers of his past and he has yet to do so. Talk is cheap when it comes from Peter Edward.

    Now he has been kind enough to sell us his tell all book with all the details of his past transgressions for $29.95. He was also kind enough to write " I am sorry I bet on baseball" a few hundred thousand times for $59.95 a pop, so just maybe he is a remorseful human being afterall.




    the guy is working....he cannot work for MLB, his life was baseball....would you respect him more if he went to a factory and put in his 25 years there? pete is doing EXACTLY what you or I or any other hard working american would do....he is making money in any legal way possible to support his family....yes he should have supported his family back in the 70's and 80's but that time is gone, all he can do is move forward and that is exactly what he is doing....why do you guys care what he does to make money? its not like he is a millionaire doing what he does.....he barely gets by. I think I read somewhere he gets something like $10 per book that sells and like 20% of his autograph signings.....he is not getting rich doing what he is doing and most of the time he is putting in more hours than you or I at his job.

    I have bruised my finger tips writing about all this to you guys....some of you are truly hurt of his actions, I get that...I was too....but I also was raised to forgive, maybe not forget, but forgive everyone if they appear to have learned their lesson. Pete still gambles, so what? I even know people who gamble for a living, some think they have problems but they get by and guess what? Its legal. Pete has said numerous times that he goes to the track or the casino, he does not bet on baseball.....and with the way casinos and onliine sites are, and not to mention money hungry bookies, if pete were to ever place a bet on baseball I am sure we would hear about it on sportscenter within a week of him placing the bet.

    some of you act like Petes actions have caused you pain and suffering. He was a baseball player, not a role model for you or your kids. He played a game for a living and he was the greates of all time at getting hits. Thats it, nothing more. I have yet to see anyone on this site fight foe Pete to be recognized for being father of the year or citizen of the month.....all anyone wants is for Pete to be rewarded for what he done on the diamond and be forgiven for what he did off it. simple as that. If you dont want to forgive him then dont, but dont expect people to forgive you when you goof up.

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  5. #78
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    Re: Joe Morgan wants Pete in the Hall

    [QUOTE=lidspinner;2939078]
    Quote Originally Posted by George Anderson View Post
    [/U][/I][/B]


    the guy is working....he cannot work for MLB, his life was baseball....would you respect him more if he went to a factory and put in his 25 years there? pete is doing EXACTLY what you or I or any other hard working american would do....he is making money in any legal way possible to support his family....yes he should have supported his family back in the 70's and 80's but that time is gone, all he can do is move forward and that is exactly what he is doing....why do you guys care what he does to make money? its not like he is a millionaire doing what he does.....he barely gets by. I think I read somewhere he gets something like $10 per book that sells and like 20% of his autograph signings.....he is not getting rich doing what he is doing and most of the time he is putting in more hours than you or I at his job.

    I have bruised my finger tips writing about all this to you guys....some of you are truly hurt of his actions, I get that...I was too....but I also was raised to forgive, maybe not forget, but forgive everyone if they appear to have learned their lesson. Pete still gambles, so what? I even know people who gamble for a living, some think they have problems but they get by and guess what? Its legal. Pete has said numerous times that he goes to the track or the casino, he does not bet on baseball.....and with the way casinos and onliine sites are, and not to mention money hungry bookies, if pete were to ever place a bet on baseball I am sure we would hear about it on sportscenter within a week of him placing the bet.

    some of you act like Petes actions have caused you pain and suffering. He was a baseball player, not a role model for you or your kids. He played a game for a living and he was the greates of all time at getting hits. Thats it, nothing more. I have yet to see anyone on this site fight foe Pete to be recognized for being father of the year or citizen of the month.....all anyone wants is for Pete to be rewarded for what he done on the diamond and be forgiven for what he did off it. simple as that. If you dont want to forgive him then dont, but dont expect people to forgive you when you goof up.
    Pete is being rewarded for what he did in uniform, his stuff is in the HOF and he's not

    As for anyone forgiving me or anyone else that has nothing to do with with Pete Rose betting on baseball and letting down the whole city of Cincinnati and that was hardly a "goof up" it was a scam

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    Re: Joe Morgan wants Pete in the Hall

    Quote Originally Posted by SunDeck View Post
    Maybe, but the line in the baseball book is largely determined by pitching. Bookies wouldn't need to look to Pete's money to figure out what the line is.
    Yes, but Pete had the inside knowledge that bookies crave. For example, he might have decided to sit Barry Larkin for a game. He'd tell the bookies, "Look, I'm sitting Larkin today so make your bets accordingly." Now, of course, that's no guarantee that the Reds would have lost that game but I think you have to agree that they had a better chance of winning if Larkin was playing than if he were not.

    Also, if Pete owed bookies money, it's possible they may have asked him to do his darndest to throw a game in exchange for wiping or reducing his debt. I'm not saying this actually happened but it's an example of what could have happened.
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    Re: Joe Morgan wants Pete in the Hall

    [QUOTE=lidspinner;2939078]
    Quote Originally Posted by George Anderson View Post
    [/U][/I][/B]


    the guy is working....he cannot work for MLB, his life was baseball....would you respect him more if he went to a factory and put in his 25 years there? pete is doing EXACTLY what you or I or any other hard working american would do....he is making money in any legal way possible to support his family....yes he should have supported his family back in the 70's and 80's but that time is gone, all he can do is move forward and that is exactly what he is doing....why do you guys care what he does to make money? its not like he is a millionaire doing what he does.....he barely gets by. I think I read somewhere he gets something like $10 per book that sells and like 20% of his autograph signings.....he is not getting rich doing what he is doing and most of the time he is putting in more hours than you or I at his job.

    I have bruised my finger tips writing about all this to you guys....some of you are truly hurt of his actions, I get that...I was too....but I also was raised to forgive, maybe not forget, but forgive everyone if they appear to have learned their lesson. Pete still gambles, so what? I even know people who gamble for a living, some think they have problems but they get by and guess what? Its legal. Pete has said numerous times that he goes to the track or the casino, he does not bet on baseball.....and with the way casinos and onliine sites are, and not to mention money hungry bookies, if pete were to ever place a bet on baseball I am sure we would hear about it on sportscenter within a week of him placing the bet.

    some of you act like Petes actions have caused you pain and suffering. He was a baseball player, not a role model for you or your kids. He played a game for a living and he was the greates of all time at getting hits. Thats it, nothing more. I have yet to see anyone on this site fight foe Pete to be recognized for being father of the year or citizen of the month.....all anyone wants is for Pete to be rewarded for what he done on the diamond and be forgiven for what he did off it. simple as that. If you dont want to forgive him then dont, but dont expect people to forgive you when you goof up.
    Pete is free to make a buck any way he can. I do not fault him for signing his name for money. If someone would buy my autograph I am sure I would sign many of them. I don't fault him for that.

    If Pete wanted back into baseball as bad as he said he does, he needed to follow a set of "rules" in order to get back in. Steadfastly denying that he bet on baseball only to admit it 15 years later and then signing balls "I am sorry I bet on baseball" isn't getting back into good graces with baseball.

    Pete's actions haven't caused me pain or suffering. Personally I feel that he is an embarrassment to this city who welcomes him back each and every time with open arms. I wish he would have repented, stayed away from the limelight, and been allowed back into baseball. Unfortunately Pete didn't do that and will forever be banned. Going on a circuit saying that he should have picked up a different vice like beating his wife isn't the right path to take. Pete just hasn't found a way to get out of his own way.

  9. #81
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    Re: Joe Morgan wants Pete in the Hall

    [QUOTE=lidspinner;2939078]
    Quote Originally Posted by George Anderson View Post
    [/U][/I][/B]


    the guy is working....he cannot work for MLB, his life was baseball....would you respect him more if he went to a factory and put in his 25 years there? pete is doing EXACTLY what you or I or any other hard working american would do....he is making money in any legal way possible to support his family....yes he should have supported his family back in the 70's and 80's but that time is gone, all he can do is move forward and that is exactly what he is doing....why do you guys care what he does to make money? its not like he is a millionaire doing what he does.....he barely gets by. I think I read somewhere he gets something like $10 per book that sells and like 20% of his autograph signings.....he is not getting rich doing what he is doing and most of the time he is putting in more hours than you or I at his job.

    I have bruised my finger tips writing about all this to you guys....some of you are truly hurt of his actions, I get that...I was too....but I also was raised to forgive, maybe not forget, but forgive everyone if they appear to have learned their lesson. Pete still gambles, so what? I even know people who gamble for a living, some think they have problems but they get by and guess what? Its legal. Pete has said numerous times that he goes to the track or the casino, he does not bet on baseball.....and with the way casinos and onliine sites are, and not to mention money hungry bookies, if pete were to ever place a bet on baseball I am sure we would hear about it on sportscenter within a week of him placing the bet.

    some of you act like Petes actions have caused you pain and suffering. He was a baseball player, not a role model for you or your kids. He played a game for a living and he was the greates of all time at getting hits. Thats it, nothing more. I have yet to see anyone on this site fight foe Pete to be recognized for being father of the year or citizen of the month.....all anyone wants is for Pete to be rewarded for what he done on the diamond and be forgiven for what he did off it. simple as that. If you dont want to forgive him then dont, but dont expect people to forgive you when you goof up.
    Your missing the point.

    BungleBengals showed us a USATODAY article where Rose said he wants to get back into baseball so he can go around and talk about and warn others not to do the things he has done to damage his life. WOY made the point Rose will do no such thing as long as it is on his dime. My point was Rose has had 25 years to do this and to date to do this idea of taking time to warn others about his past which he has recently offered to do and has done no such thing. Other than signing baseballs and writing the book for money which I mocked, Rose has shown zero sincere remorse for his past transgressions. Now if you want to dangle a carrott in front of him like allowing him back in MLB so he can get a steady paycheck or give him $59.95 to write an apology on a baseball then he will gladly act remorseful or do a tour where he talks to people about gambling or anything else that will pay him.

    I will be happy to forgive Rose when he is truly remorseful. I get it with Cincinnati people in that Pete is from there, he hustled and he got his uniform dirty and he played hard, blah, blah, blah, so lets ignore the fact the man has the character and integrity of a rat. However you have to realize people like me see him as a complete conman who for to long has taken advantage of his situation and has cause alot of pain and embarrasment along the way to people that care about the Reds.

    When he changes his ways I will be more than happy to forgive.
    "Boys, I'm one of those umpires that misses 'em every once in a while so if it's close, you'd better hit it." Cal Hubbard

  10. #82
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    Re: Joe Morgan wants Pete in the Hall

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R View Post
    Yes, but Pete had the inside knowledge that bookies crave. For example, he might have decided to sit Barry Larkin for a game. He'd tell the bookies, "Look, I'm sitting Larkin today so make your bets accordingly." Now, of course, that's no guarantee that the Reds would have lost that game but I think you have to agree that they had a better chance of winning if Larkin was playing than if he were not.

    Also, if Pete owed bookies money, it's possible they may have asked him to do his darndest to throw a game in exchange for wiping or reducing his debt. I'm not saying this actually happened but it's an example of what could have happened.
    That's the other part that's always bugged me about this. Why do we so easily accept that he never bet against the Reds or threw a game?

    Because he said so? From the very beginning, Pete's statement's have essentially been their own version of two truths and one lie.

    1st- He said he gambled and hung around with bookies, but he never bet on baseball.

    Next- He admitted to betting on baseball, but he never bet on Reds games.

    Then- He said he bet on Reds games, but he always bet the same amount on each game(so as to not tip the bookies)

    The- He admitted to betting different amounts on different games, but he always bet on the Reds to win.

    I'm almost inclined to believe he bet against the Reds, if only because he says he didn't.
    Last edited by Hoosier Red; 08-15-2013 at 12:32 PM.
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  11. #83
    First Time Caller SunDeck's Avatar
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    Re: Joe Morgan wants Pete in the Hall

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R View Post
    Yes, but Pete had the inside knowledge that bookies crave. For example, he might have decided to sit Barry Larkin for a game. He'd tell the bookies, "Look, I'm sitting Larkin today so make your bets accordingly." Now, of course, that's no guarantee that the Reds would have lost that game but I think you have to agree that they had a better chance of winning if Larkin was playing than if he were not.

    Also, if Pete owed bookies money, it's possible they may have asked him to do his darndest to throw a game in exchange for wiping or reducing his debt. I'm not saying this actually happened but it's an example of what could have happened.
    I don't know how bets are relayed to bookies now what with the internet and all, but back in the pre-digital days, the activity was largely handled through middlemen. Carry-out restaurants were the ideal locations because they had multiple phone lines coming in, making the phone traffic harder to identify. A bettor mostly communicated with the middlemen, who would relay the numbers on to the bookies. This created a pretty safe system, whereby the one step removal made it harder to track the activity directly to a bookie, or vice versa. If Pete talked directly to bookies, it would most likely have been about large bets or to work out payment terms.

    I'm not saying the kind of information sharing you suggest is not possible, but I think it would have been very risky for bookies to talk that much to Pete. It might be more plausible in football, where they play once a week, but with a game per day, that would have been a lot of back and forth between Pete and a bookie. For the most part, the way baseball betting worked back then is that a person would call a middleman, give his name (or handle), rattle off the picks and hang up. I don't know any details about his betting, but Pete should have placed most of his bets through a double blind; one of his sycophantic friends would have been perfectly willing to make the calls. But apparently, he was sloppy or his addiction pushed him to actually fill out betting sheets in his own hand (a cardinal sin), which iirc was the way MLB nailed him. That he got caught says a lot about his personality; there are people who've been in the sports book business in Cincinnati for generations and they had a pretty safe way of keeping everyone out of trouble back then. Maybe it was just Pete being Pete.
    Last edited by SunDeck; 08-15-2013 at 01:09 PM.
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    Re: Joe Morgan wants Pete in the Hall

    Quote Originally Posted by SunDeck View Post
    Maybe it was just Pete being Pete.
    The best investing advice I ever got from my dad involved staying away from thinking I knew enough about a particular industry to make money investing in it. He said once, "If Pete Rose lost money betting on baseball, you're not going to know any industry well enough to be ahead of the market."

    I think a lot of the reason Pete got caught, not only did he bet a whole lot in reckless ways without considering how to cover his tracks, he was also apparently exceptionally bad at it.
    When people say that I donít know what Iím talking about when it comes to sports or writing, I think: Man, you should see me in the rest of my life.
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    Re: Joe Morgan wants Pete in the Hall

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Red View Post
    The best investing advice I ever got from my dad involved staying away from thinking I knew enough about a particular industry to make money investing in it. He said once, "If Pete Rose lost money betting on baseball, you're not going to know any industry well enough to be ahead of the market."

    I think a lot of the reason Pete got caught, not only did he bet a whole lot in reckless ways without considering how to cover his tracks, he was also apparently exceptionally bad at it.
    He's a heck of a whale for any bookie to get their hooks into; spontaneous, pockets filled with cash, full of hubris.
    Next Reds manager, second shooter. --Confirmed on Redszone.


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