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Thread: Joe Morgan wants Pete in the Hall

  1. #61
    Big Red Machine RedsBaron's Avatar
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    Re: Joe Morgan wants Pete in the Hall

    Quote Originally Posted by BungleBengals View Post
    Antics off the field and after retirement shouldn't be considered in HOF considerations. Yes they paint the candidate in a bad way, but the HOF is supposed to honor the greatest players of all time.

    Look at the NFL HOF, they had Lawrence Taylor in the Hall already and he had sex with a 15 year old (allegedly), but they didn't suddenly kick him out. Seems unfair if he did that before getting in and then them not let him in. Would Pete be kicked out if they found out he was gambling after he got in?
    There is no precedent for expelling a member of the HOF.
    Had Pete's gambling on baseball not been uncovered until three years later he would have already been in the Hall of Fame. He would have been voted into the HOF, probably on a near unanimous vote, in early 1992, his first year on the ballot.
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  3. #62
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Joe Morgan wants Pete in the Hall

    Quote Originally Posted by BungleBengals View Post
    From USAToday article:
    I don't care about Braun, I care about this:

    (d) BETTING ON BALL GAMES. Any player, umpire, or club official or
    employee, who shall bet any sum whatsoever upon any baseball game in
    connection with which the bettor has no duty to perform shall be declared
    ineligible for one year.

    Any player, umpire, or club or league official or employee, who shall
    bet any sum whatsoever upon any baseball game in connection with which
    the bettor has a duty to perform shall be declared permanently ineligible.

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    Re: Joe Morgan wants Pete in the Hall

    Morgan has always wanted Pete back in baseball, nothing new there. The news is in his point that if they're going to vote on PED users, Pete's suspension should be revisited. I can't say he's wrong in that. However, it's unlikely to happen while Selig is Commissioner.
    Last edited by AmarilloRed; 08-14-2013 at 02:02 PM.

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    Re: Joe Morgan wants Pete in the Hall

    Quote Originally Posted by BungleBengals View Post
    .... but the HOF is supposed to honor the greatest players of all time.....
    The greatest players of all time who weren't declared ineligible.

  8. #65
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    Re: Joe Morgan wants Pete in the Hall

    [QUOTE=westofyou;2938410]
    He's not going to be talking to anybody about anything but hitting, and that's on his own time and dime.[/QUOTE]

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    I don't care about Braun, I care about this:
    (d) BETTING ON BALL GAMES. Any player, umpire, or club official or
    employee, who shall bet any sum whatsoever upon any baseball game in
    connection with which the bettor has no duty to perform shall be declared
    ineligible for one year.

    Any player, umpire, or club or league official or employee, who shall
    bet any sum whatsoever upon any baseball game in connection with which
    the bettor has a duty to perform shall be declared permanently ineligible.
    I was simply pointing out that he will not only talk about hitting. He is expressing interest in talking to guys to help deter the PEDs and cheating.

    I believe he deserves to at least be allowed to be put on the ballot and let the voters decide.
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    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Joe Morgan wants Pete in the Hall

    Apologies for going off on a tangent here but does anyone else think Pete's suspension was ultimately a good thing for the Reds on the field? Obviously they won the Series the next year but there are probably people who believe the Reds would have had the same result with Pete as the manager.

    Let's say Pete never gambled on baseball and was thus never suspended. How tough would it have been to fire him if the Reds underperformed? Marge loved him to pieces and while she wanted to win, she seemed to value interpersonal relationships more than the results on the field. If Marge herself had never been suspended and the Reds under Pete had records similar to the teams in the 00s, would she have stuck with Pete or bit the bullet and let him go? If she did, could you imagine the firestorm that would have followed?
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  10. #67
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Joe Morgan wants Pete in the Hall

    Quote Originally Posted by BungleBengals View Post
    I was simply pointing out that he will not only talk about hitting. He is expressing interest in talking to guys to help deter the PEDs and cheating.

    I believe he deserves to at least be allowed to be put on the ballot and let the voters decide.
    What makes Pete Rose qualified to speak to guys about things one "shouldn't do" in any aspect of life?

    He's a train wreck of a human being, he has nothing to say that can deter anyone from anything, his actions do more to accomplish that than anything that could fall out of his mouth.

    As for the HOF I could care less at this point.

  11. #68
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    Re: Joe Morgan wants Pete in the Hall

    [QUOTE=BungleBengals;2938437]
    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    He's not going to be talking to anybody about anything but hitting, and that's on his own time and dime.[/QUOTE]



    I was simply pointing out that he will not only talk about hitting. He is expressing interest in talking to guys to help deter the PEDs and cheating.

    .
    Rose has had 25 years to do a talk circuit to warn the youth of the dangers of his past and he has yet to do so. Talk is cheap when it comes from Peter Edward.

    Now he has been kind enough to sell us his tell all book with all the details of his past transgressions for $29.95. He was also kind enough to write " I am sorry I bet on baseball" a few hundred thousand times for $59.95 a pop, so just maybe he is a remorseful human being afterall.
    "Boys, I'm one of those umpires that misses 'em every once in a while so if it's close, you'd better hit it." Cal Hubbard

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    Re: Joe Morgan wants Pete in the Hall

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Red View Post
    The Mets Yankees and Brewers are not banned from the game for associating with gamblers. The Mets, Yankees, and Brewers are not asking for reinstatement and trying to demonstrate to baseball they've changed their ways.

    Is it a double standard that baseball has commercial relationships with casinos yet don't allow their players to gamble in them? Sure. But there's an obvious reason for it.

    And further, the honus is on Pete. He is asking to have his sentence reduced. So if baseball tells him to stop hanging around a casino, he doesn't get to decide whether or not it's fair, he gets to decide if it's worth it to him to no longer associate himself with gambling.

    Instead I think he's made the calculated decision that he's worth more as a pariah than he would as another HOF.
    Are those teams betting on baseball...no...end of story to me!

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    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Joe Morgan wants Pete in the Hall

    Quote Originally Posted by Roy Tucker View Post
    Gee, Pete should join RedsZone. Everyone's life in here is perfect and we never make mistakes.
    Sorry I Judged Pete Rose

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  16. #71
    nothing more than a fan Always Red's Avatar
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    Re: Joe Morgan wants Pete in the Hall

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Sorry I Judged Pete Rose

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    woy, can you sign that on a baseball for me please?


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    Re: Joe Morgan wants Pete in the Hall

    Quote Originally Posted by cumberlandreds View Post
    I had never really thought of it that way. Rose probably used not betting on the Reds as a way to inform the bookies he didn't think they would win that day. But I have never been that sure that he never bet on the Reds to lose. When you are addicted to gambling you will do anything to try to win a bet.
    The other important point in that is that it "could" have an influence on how he manages a game. The reliever Rob Murphy's name always gets brought up in these discussions, but it's probably a little too obscure to be relevant. So just to use the current roster as an example.

    Last night Chapman closed out the bottom of the 11th inning, it was his third appearance in three nights, and I imagine Dusty would really like a blowout so he doesn't have to make a decision about pitching him today.

    So imagine Pete has money riding on the game today, does he bring in Chapman knowing it probably knocks him out of tomorrows game if not longer.

    If he didn't have money on last night's game, does he maybe not bring in Chapman so he'll be available today instead?

    There's a lot of things we'd never know were going on, and of course the fact that he kept his habit a secret means you'd never have a chance to question him on it.

    But there's a very good reason why gambling on baseball is not allowed and gambling on your team is even worse.
    When people say that I donít know what Iím talking about when it comes to sports or writing, I think: Man, you should see me in the rest of my life.
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  18. #73
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: Joe Morgan wants Pete in the Hall

    Quote Originally Posted by BungleBengals View Post
    Antics off the field and after retirement shouldn't be considered in HOF considerations. Yes they paint the candidate in a bad way, but the HOF is supposed to honor the greatest players of all time.

    Look at the NFL HOF, they had Lawrence Taylor in the Hall already and he had sex with a 15 year old (allegedly), but they didn't suddenly kick him out. Seems unfair if he did that before getting in and then them not let him in. Would Pete be kicked out if they found out he was gambling after he got in?
    When you are barred from the HOF and want back in you have to follow their rules. It doesn't matter what you, I, or even Pete thinks about him being in the HOF. He has to prove to baseball that he deserves to have his banned lifted. What he has done since the ban has only help firm that ban up.

  19. #74
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    Re: Joe Morgan wants Pete in the Hall

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R View Post
    Apologies for going off on a tangent here but does anyone else think Pete's suspension was ultimately a good thing for the Reds on the field? Obviously they won the Series the next year but there are probably people who believe the Reds would have had the same result with Pete as the manager.
    I'd very much like to believe that Pete could have taken the team to the next level. It would be interesting to ask that question of Bill Bergesch, the last GM during his tenure - except he passed away in 2011.
    /r/reds

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  21. #75
    First Time Caller SunDeck's Avatar
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    Re: Joe Morgan wants Pete in the Hall

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R View Post
    Even though Pete only bet on the Reds to win, he didn't do it every game. On the days he did not bet on the Reds, that could be seen by bookies and oddsmakers that Pete didn't believe the Reds would win that game and perhaps wouldn't do his best helping the Reds to win. We know Pete was indebted to the bookies and perhaps when he did not bet on a game, that was a favor to the bookies. They would adjust the odds accordingly and possibly bet on the team that was playing the Reds and also they wouldn't ask Pete for the money he owed them so soon.
    Maybe, but the line in the baseball book is largely determined by pitching. Bookies wouldn't need to look to Pete's money to figure out what the line is.
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