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Thread: Lack of premier talent in MLB

  1. #16
    Member mdccclxix's Avatar
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    Re: Lack of premier talent in MLB

    Quote Originally Posted by Cedric View Post
    Sure, but it seems like the superior athletic players like Trout, McCutchen, Cabrera, and Puig are destroying pitching.

    I just don't see the spread of those types of players. My theory was MLB has basically lost a large source of their premier talent by losing the black athlete. I think it's apart along with the defense shifts and pitching improvement.
    Forgive me, but I just can't call Cabrera "athletic" like I could McCutchen or Trout, etc. He's just an awesome hitter.

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  3. #17
    Member RedsBrick's Avatar
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    Re: Lack of premier talent in MLB

    This conversation must be open to the idea of the possible reduction in PED usage.

  4. #18
    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: Lack of premier talent in MLB

    Well, if any player comes out hitting home runs he is automatically labeled a PED user..at least around here.
    Go Gators!

  5. #19
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    Re: Lack of premier talent in MLB

    Bill James was on his webisite the other day and he made a good point: i'm paraphrasing - he reports we see greater defensive plays because the quality of the fields has improved markedly and i think that he's on to something.

    You look at a game from the 80's and if it's a grass field in August - there are many bare spots -especially around the pitchers mound. There are football lines on the field -which means they may have played a pre-season game. When you have those conditions -you tend to play much more conservative- you can't take as many chances diving for a ball, etc... The great Ozzie Smith play that used to get shown on tv about once a week -look at the field that he makes the play on -it's almost all dirt- of course, that's what made the play great -he fielded the ball bare handed because it took a wicked wild bounce and he made the adjustment.

    Now you have pristine fields where baseball only gets played. The safety around the walls has improved, are there more than 1 or 2 bullpens in play anymore? That used to be something that every corner fielder had to contend with - plus the roll of tarp. All these little improvements in safety make it easier for the players to go full speed without worrying about numerous repercussions. I think it makes for a better ball game.

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  7. #20
    Flash the leather! _Sir_Charles_'s Avatar
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    Re: Lack of premier talent in MLB

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Pitching is better. Defense is better. Makes a big difference.

    Guys are throwing harder than ever. Homer Bailey throws a slider at 90 MPH. 25 years ago that was an above-average fastball velocity.
    As I'm sure WoY will post with a big chart of numbers, this game goes in cycles. Today's fans have grown accustomed to the high scoring games/teams. These past couple of years we're seeing the beginning of the swing back to the pitching/defense focused game which will also bring back small-ball. IMO this is a good thing. It really brings to the forefront the fundamentals of the game. It makes players who have a wide range of skills move to the front. The guys who practice how to bunt, who take ground ball after ground ball, who shag hundreds of fly balls, who run the stadium steps for conditioning...these are the guys who will shine during the low scoring environment. 1 trick ponies...step aside. It's time for COMPLETE ballplayers to step to the dish.
    2014 predictions:
    99-63 WS champs (Cards take 2nd WC, Mil 3rd, Pit 4th, Chi 5th)
    Bruce/Votto neck and neck MVP race (neither takes it)
    Bailey CYA winner
    Hamilton ROY & GG

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  9. #21
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Lack of premier talent in MLB

    Quote Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_ View Post
    As I'm sure WoY will post with a big chart of numbers, this game goes in cycles. Today's fans have grown accustomed to the high scoring games/teams. These past couple of years we're seeing the beginning of the swing back to the pitching/defense focused game which will also bring back small-ball. IMO this is a good thing. It really brings to the forefront the fundamentals of the game. It makes players who have a wide range of skills move to the front. The guys who practice how to bunt, who take ground ball after ground ball, who shag hundreds of fly balls, who run the stadium steps for conditioning...these are the guys who will shine during the low scoring environment. 1 trick ponies...step aside. It's time for COMPLETE ballplayers to step to the dish.
    If their one trick is hitting the ball over the fence, they are going to stay around. Home runs score. Bunting sucks. I wish they would outlaw it.

  10. #22
    Flash the leather! _Sir_Charles_'s Avatar
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    Re: Lack of premier talent in MLB

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    If their one trick is hitting the ball over the fence, they are going to stay around. Home runs score. Bunting sucks. I wish they would outlaw it.
    If their one trick is power and they can't defend, run or make decent contact? The pendulum hasn't swung all the way yet of course, but once it does...not as many of them will stick around as you may think. Bunting does NOT suck. It's been put down in recent years due to the sabermetric outlook on things. While the saber community has grown, it's done so during a high-scoring environment. When playing for 1 run isn't a good idea. If/when we do get back to a true low-scoring environment, then small ball will have it's place again in the forefront. Bunting is just like everything else in baseball, it's a skill that has it's uses in the proper time/place. Mis-using the bunt most definitely DOES suck though...so we may not disagree as much as it may seem.
    2014 predictions:
    99-63 WS champs (Cards take 2nd WC, Mil 3rd, Pit 4th, Chi 5th)
    Bruce/Votto neck and neck MVP race (neither takes it)
    Bailey CYA winner
    Hamilton ROY & GG

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  12. #23
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Lack of premier talent in MLB

    Bunting sucks. Very few guys can do it well enough and have enough speed to do it and get hits out of it. If you can't do it for a hit, you shouldn't be doing it. Quit wasting outs, especially before the 7th inning. I can't stand it.

    And yes, as long as there is a DH and first basemen in the league, guys who hit .240 with 30 bombs are going to have jobs.

  13. #24
    Flash the leather! _Sir_Charles_'s Avatar
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    Re: Lack of premier talent in MLB

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Bunting sucks. Very few guys can do it well enough and have enough speed to do it and get hits out of it. If you can't do it for a hit, you shouldn't be doing it. Quit wasting outs, especially before the 7th inning. I can't stand it.

    And yes, as long as there is a DH and first basemen in the league, guys who hit .240 with 30 bombs are going to have jobs.
    You're making my point FOR me btw. Guys during the power game didn't practice it. They still currently suck at it. And it's not always about trying to bunt for a HIT. It's properly used in the correct circumstance. And it's STILL currently used in the wrong circumstances far too often by managers who misuse it.

    My point about the Wily Mo Pena-types are that you won't be finding them manning 3rd base, left field, right field, second...sure, you'll always find some at DH and 1st...but there's only so many of those positions to go around. When the game swings fully towards pitching/defense...gm's will not allow butchers in the field to man defensively important positions as they do now.
    2014 predictions:
    99-63 WS champs (Cards take 2nd WC, Mil 3rd, Pit 4th, Chi 5th)
    Bruce/Votto neck and neck MVP race (neither takes it)
    Bailey CYA winner
    Hamilton ROY & GG

  14. #25
    nothing more than a fan Always Red's Avatar
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    Re: Lack of premier talent in MLB

    I think there's more premiere talent in MLB than ever before, which is why it's more difficult than ever to be really outstanding. Used to be once you got past the SP and got into the bullpen, the rout was on. No longer.

    Plus, the scouting and positioning is so much advanced now- Ryan Ludwick hit what should have been a solid line drive single last night in the first inning that the 2nd baseman played on the SS side of the bag. That's a combo of excellent defense and excellent scouting.

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  16. #26
    Member Superdude's Avatar
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    Re: Lack of premier talent in MLB

    Quote Originally Posted by Always Red View Post
    Used to be once you got past the SP and got into the bullpen, the rout was on. No longer.
    Biggest difference to me. The batting tees that were brought out between innings 5-7 a decade ago are pratically extinct. The "wear out the starter" myth is dead IMO. It rarely gets easier after that.

    You also have to wonder if this has cut back on the free swinging power guys? Hitters like Heisey and Stubbs might've been able to get enough cheap shots off slop throwing relievers in the late 90's to be productive. Now it seems like without a compact swing and a good eye, you're toast.

  17. #27
    Hisssssssss Yachtzee's Avatar
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    Re: Lack of premier talent in MLB

    Quote Originally Posted by Always Red View Post
    I think there's more premiere talent in MLB than ever before, which is why it's more difficult than ever to be really outstanding. Used to be once you got past the SP and got into the bullpen, the rout was on. No longer.

    Plus, the scouting and positioning is so much advanced now- Ryan Ludwick hit what should have been a solid line drive single last night in the first inning that the 2nd baseman played on the SS side of the bag. That's a combo of excellent defense and excellent scouting.
    The number of international players has increased as well. MLB draws the best talent from around the World. In the past, great players stood out because they were so much better than the average player, and well beyond the players at the bottom. Drawing players from a larger talent pool has raised the level of those on the bubble between the majors and AAA to the point where greatness doesn't stand out as much. I feel the great players of the past would be great in any era. However, it's unlikely that the Mario Mendozas of the past would make itI in today's game.
    Burn down the disco. Hang the blessed DJ. Because the music that he constantly plays, it says nothing to me about my life.

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