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Thread: Sad day to be a Baseball fan

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  1. #1
    The Mogul nismoredlegs's Avatar
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    Sad day to be a Baseball fan

    Looking over today's events in the Boston/New York Yankees game I was perplexed at what I saw.

    The home plate umpire not throwing out Dempster for the multiple throws towards A-Rod, but instead throwing out Gerardi for throwing his hat.

    It seems to me the umpire took his emotions in with his decision and seemed to be playing sides. If that is the case, it is very sad. The day when we can't trust the "truth keepers" of the game, and its easily noticed, and not condemned. Will be the day when I ask for Umpires to be replaced with computers.

    Now as a fan of the game, I want to keep it natural, and keep computers out of the game. As of now I am still not a fan of fair/foul instant replay.
    I know natural means mistakes will happen, closes calls will be called wrong; I am fine with that.
    But to see this home plate umpire steer clear of ruling a game to detour towards pushing their own personal agenda, is selfish, and not what I want to be seen from the Umpires. Stick to calling the shots, not choosing which ones to allow.

    I am not contempt with Alex's decisions, but I still expect the rules of the game to be applied fairly. Let the fans chant, yell and curse all they want. But I would love to see the professionals of MLB, or even the gentlemen of the supposed gentlemen's game, to be responsible.

    Alex will get his in fair time, there is a reason for the law and the appeals system.


    Some people may disagree and say the ump was playing it right. But I just don't see it.

    I'd love to hear other people's opinions from here. Not on MLB.com; where it is an E-thug match between Boston and New York.

    I love the game of baseball and praise it for the organic and honest feeling it has compared to other sports. I just don't want that to be lost.

    Jim Joyce had the guts to swallow his pride and apologize when he realized his mistake, I'd like to see more of that, and no more of this.

    Paul Harvey. Good Day.
    "Why you going to the Airport; flying somewhere?"

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    Member tomnuetten's Avatar
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    Re: Sad day to be a Baseball fan

    He had to throw out Girardi (that was a no brainer)...

    I think it would have been the better/right decision to throw out dempster too, but I saw lots of times, that after a hbp the ump warns both benches and thatīs it (altough one team didnīt do anything wrong)

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    Re: Sad day to be a Baseball fan

    Quote Originally Posted by nismoredlegs View Post

    It seems to me the umpire took his emotions in with his decision and seemed to be playing sides. If that is the case, it is very sad. The day when we can't trust the "truth keepers" of the game, and its easily noticed, and not condemned. Will be the day when I ask for Umpires to be replaced with computers.

    I think that day has already passed. Now I don't know how many umps necessarily intentionally play sides with calls, but there seem to be a few umps (looking at you Angel Hernandez) that either do it intentionally or are just so awful at their job that it makes MLB look bad for keeping them around (although I don't know how difficult it would be for MLB to get rid of them with the umpire union).

  4. #4
    Beer is good!! George Anderson's Avatar
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    Re: Sad day to be a Baseball fan

    Quote Originally Posted by nismoredlegs View Post
    Looking over today's events in the Boston/New York Yankees game I was perplexed at what I saw.

    The home plate umpire not throwing out Dempster for the multiple throws towards A-Rod, but instead throwing out Gerardi for throwing his hat.

    It seems to me the umpire took his emotions in with his decision and seemed to be playing sides. If that is the case, it is very sad. The day when we can't trust the "truth keepers" of the game, and its easily noticed, and not condemned. Will be the day when I ask for Umpires to be replaced with computers.

    Now as a fan of the game, I want to keep it natural, and keep computers out of the game. As of now I am still not a fan of fair/foul instant replay.
    I know natural means mistakes will happen, closes calls will be called wrong; I am fine with that.
    But to see this home plate umpire steer clear of ruling a game to detour towards pushing their own personal agenda, is selfish, and not what I want to be seen from the Umpires. Stick to calling the shots, not choosing which ones to allow.

    I am not contempt with Alex's decisions, but I still expect the rules of the game to be applied fairly. Let the fans chant, yell and curse all they want. But I would love to see the professionals of MLB, or even the gentlemen of the supposed gentlemen's game, to be responsible.

    Alex will get his in fair time, there is a reason for the law and the appeals system.


    Some people may disagree and say the ump was playing it right. But I just don't see it.

    I'd love to hear other people's opinions from here. Not on MLB.com; where it is an E-thug match between Boston and New York.

    I love the game of baseball and praise it for the organic and honest feeling it has compared to other sports. I just don't want that to be lost.

    Jim Joyce had the guts to swallow his pride and apologize when he realized his mistake, I'd like to see more of that, and no more of this.

    Paul Harvey. Good Day.
    Girardi threw his hat, that is an automatic ejection.

    In the umpires judgement, the first pitch at the legs got away from the pitcher. The second he thought may have been intentional. He did his job and warned both dugouts. An ejection in that instance is not warranted. You never want to overreact and eject players unless you are 100% sure it is deserved.

    The umpire did a very good job.
    "Boys, I'm one of those umpires that misses 'em every once in a while so if it's close, you'd better hit it." Cal Hubbard

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    Re: Sad day to be a Baseball fan

    Quote Originally Posted by George Anderson View Post
    Girardi threw his hat, that is an automatic ejection.

    In the umpires judgement, the first pitch at the legs got away from the pitcher. The second he thought may have been intentional. He did his job and warned both dugouts. An ejection in that instance is not warranted. You never want to overreact and eject players unless you are 100% sure it is deserved.

    The umpire did a very good job.
    Isn't the act of simply just arguing the warning of both benches grounds for ejection of the manager? It seems I've heard that somewhere (perhaps last year when Hurdle was ejected after Leake hit Harrison and warnings were issued).

  6. #6
    Beer is good!! George Anderson's Avatar
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    Re: Sad day to be a Baseball fan

    Quote Originally Posted by Larkin Fan View Post
    Isn't the act of simply just arguing the warning of both benches grounds for ejection of the manager? It seems I've heard that somewhere (perhaps last year when Hurdle was ejected after Leake hit Harrison and warnings were issued).
    No, once you issue warnings then the next time a player is intentionally thrown out that pitcher and manager is ejected.

    Now the key word here is intentional. Just because a warning is given means that if batter is hit that the pitcher and manager must automatically be ejected. We had a situation where we warned both dugouts but a few innings later after a player was hit the HP ump didnt feel it was intentional so he did not eject anyone. Needless to say it got ugly.
    "Boys, I'm one of those umpires that misses 'em every once in a while so if it's close, you'd better hit it." Cal Hubbard

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    Re: Sad day to be a Baseball fan

    In all of my years of watching baseball, I honestly do think I have ever seen a HBP that was more obviously intentional than that. I know George likes to defend the umps, but Dempster clearly should have been ejected here.

    "A sad day to be a baseball fan" is a little over the top though, wouldn't you say? How about "Umpire messes up a judgement call that turned out to not really matter at all"?

    jvs

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    Beer is good!! George Anderson's Avatar
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    Re: Sad day to be a Baseball fan

    Quote Originally Posted by PTjvs View Post
    In all of my years of watching baseball, I honestly do think I have ever seen a HBP that was more obviously intentional than that. I know George likes to defend the umps, but Dempster clearly should have been ejected here.

    "A sad day to be a baseball fan" is a little over the top though, wouldn't you say? How about "Umpire messes up a judgement call that turned out to not really matter at all"?

    jvs
    and had the umpire ejected Dempster without giving a warning then all we would be talking about is the out of control, renegade umpires who are ejecting players and putting the focus on them.

    BTW if you follow along you will know I am very fair in my assessment of umpires. I am quick to criticize as I am to defend.
    "Boys, I'm one of those umpires that misses 'em every once in a while so if it's close, you'd better hit it." Cal Hubbard

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    Moderator LexRedsFan's Avatar
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    Re: Sad day to be a Baseball fan

    I watched the replay, and it's pretty clear that the second and third pitches are "at" A Rod after he hits him with the fourth one.

    However, I'm honestly not sure you can say they were at him until you see him actually get beaned. Yes, they were inside... But not "diving out of the way" inside. I thought the best way the ump could have handled it was issuing the warnings after the FIRST pitch.

  10. #10
    Member klw's Avatar
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    Re: Sad day to be a Baseball fan

    Quote Originally Posted by LexRedsFan View Post
    I watched the replay, and it's pretty clear that the second and third pitches are "at" A Rod after he hits him with the fourth one.

    However, I'm honestly not sure you can say they were at him until you see him actually get beaned. Yes, they were inside... But not "diving out of the way" inside. I thought the best way the ump could have handled it was issuing the warnings after the FIRST pitch.
    I disagree. The second and third pitches were not close to A Rod though they were tailing fastballs. The late movement is exaggerated by the TV angle. The second was not that far from being a strike and Arod didn't even flinch.

    http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?...s_mlb&c_id=mlb

  11. #11
    Moderator LexRedsFan's Avatar
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    Re: Sad day to be a Baseball fan

    Quote Originally Posted by klw View Post
    I disagree. The second and third pitches were not close to A Rod though they were tailing fastballs. The late movement is exaggerated by the TV angle. The second was not that far from being a strike and Arod didn't even flinch.

    http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?...s_mlb&c_id=mlb
    This view is much better.

    I was judging based on ESPN, who put a red "circle" up showing where each pitch was...the circles are further inside than the pitch actually was. I'll see if I can catch it again today or find a screenshot somewhere.

  12. #12
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: Sad day to be a Baseball fan

    Would it be fair to say George, that sometimes the sequence of events that happen results in the "wrong" party being tossed? For instance, in football, you always hear, "the second guy to fight gets the flag". Care to expound upon that? Do the umps say anything to the guy being tossed to let them know the ump realizes it wasn't "fair".

    I believe that is often the case, and I chalk it up to just being one of those things.

  13. #13
    Beer is good!! George Anderson's Avatar
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    Re: Sad day to be a Baseball fan

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    Would it be fair to say George, that sometimes the sequence of events that happen results in the "wrong" party being tossed? For instance, in football, you always hear, "the second guy to fight gets the flag". Care to expound upon that? Do the umps say anything to the guy being tossed to let them know the ump realizes it wasn't "fair".

    I believe that is often the case, and I chalk it up to just being one of those things.
    The less you talk on the field the better off things will be. If the situation arose where I had to eject a pitcher following a warning and regardless if he was or wasn't the one who started it. I would eject, explain to the coach I felt he tried to hit the batter intentionally and that he was ejected. I would say nothing more regardless how much the coach tried to plead his case. The decision has been made and the only thing a long discussion will do is get me to say something to enrage the coach or incriminate myself and get me in trouble after the game. Silence is golden.
    "Boys, I'm one of those umpires that misses 'em every once in a while so if it's close, you'd better hit it." Cal Hubbard

  14. #14
    Mr. RedLeg's goon GotHeeeeem's Avatar
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    Re: Sad day to be a Baseball fan

    If you really want PEDs out of the game this is how it is gunna happen, the players policing it.

    At this point its obvious the MLB penalties aren't doing the trick.

    In fact I think its opposite of the original poster. That day was a good day to be a baseball fan because it became clear that there are players against it, just not talking against it for media reasons.

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    Member Dwarftree's Avatar
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    Re: Sad day to be a Baseball fan

    Quote Originally Posted by GotHeeeeem View Post
    At this point its obvious the MLB penalties aren't doing the trick.
    Thats the main issue. Penalties need to be MUCH harsher than they are atm. Strike the cheaters and strike them hard. First time caught? 100 games ban without pay. Second time caught? You are outta here. All records strapped, contract void. No money.

    And i think the players should really step up more and put pressure on the Players Union to maybe even alter the CBA in that way. Because clean players are the ones i realy feel sorry for. Loosing their jobs to cheaters must feel really bad.

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