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Thread: Joey Votto - 'I want every single RBI, every single run'

  1. #16
    Member Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: Joey Votto - 'I want every single RBI, every single run'

    Quote Originally Posted by HokieRed View Post
    Past time for some changes in the Reds broadcast crew, IMHO.
    I'll be honest, I only care about TV. Put Cowboy and the Brennaman Boys on radio full time. Bring back Kent Mercker to be Welsh's alternate on trips he doesn't make and leave PBP to Kelch/Day/Grande.
    "Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."

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  3. #17
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Joey Votto - 'I want every single RBI, every single run'

    Quote Originally Posted by Always Red View Post
    Brantley and Thom were on him right away, in the 1st inning last night, in a mostly passive-aggressive way, extolling the virtues of both Goldschmidt and Phillips, and then describing Votto's goal at the plate is "to not make an out".

    Brantley then recalled a recent meeting with Jim Leyland, in which he told JB that Cabrera expands his strike zone in every RBI situation. Then there was silence. But they had already said what they wanted to say, and let the viewer fill in the blanks.

    I have no problem with BP and them praising him at all, that's not my point (I know some will jump to BP's defense). I'm just not sure how they don't understand how runs get scored, after watching and playin (in Brantley's case) the game all these years.

    We've seen lately what happens when Votto expands his strike zone in RBI situations- I think he's popped up 2x during the last week, which he hasn't done in years.
    This is what bugs me; when critics/analysts forget that a player's approach can not be analyzed outside of his skill set.

    Miguel Cabrera is the hitter he is because he can hit with power even when expanding his zone. Votto has not shown an ability to do that.

    If Votto could expand his zone and still make regular, solid contact, he'd be doing that already.

    But instead they are functionally complaining that Votto isn't Cabrera as if that were a choice and not primarily a function of underlying skills. In some ways, players who have found the optimal way to maximize their production given their skills get the most criticism -- precisely because their limits are in such clear view.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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  5. #18
    .377 in 1905 CySeymour's Avatar
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    Re: Joey Votto - 'I want every single RBI, every single run'

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsfaninMT View Post
    Besides, they continued...the Reds have BP and Bruce, so Votto is hardly an MVP.
    So then Cabrerra shouldn't be considered, because the Tigers have Verlander and Fielder.
    ...the 2-2 to Woodsen and here it comes...and it is swung on and missed! And Tom Browning has pitched a perfect game! Twenty-seven outs in a row, and he is being mobbed by his teammates, just to the thirdbase side of the mound.

  6. #19
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: Joey Votto - 'I want every single RBI, every single run'

    Props to Joey. He knows his game and isn't letting others dictate how he plays. Someone doesn't like it that's their problem.
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

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  8. #20
    They call me "chef"
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    Re: Joey Votto - 'I want every single RBI, every single run'

    There is a small, vocal minority of Reds fans and media members who do not deserve the watch the game that Votto brings.
    Cincinnati Reds 2014 W-L Record: 76.6-85.4*

    Cincinnati Reds 2015 W-L Record: TBA

    *UPDATED: 2/11/2014

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  10. #21
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    Re: Joey Votto - 'I want every single RBI, every single run'

    Why is it that some think that great hitters are cast from mold? They're not. Each one is unique and possesses a unique skill-set that they've had to come to understand, master, and use to the best possible advantage for their game.

    The suggestion that Joey Votto needs to be more like Miguel Cabrera is a ridiculous one. They're two completely different people, two completely different hitters that approach their craft from a different angle. And they both do it well. It's silly to think that one can just alter their approach on a whim to be more like another player. Just plain silly. And in Votto's case, his approach isn't broken. It's quite successful, at an elite level. So exactly why do some want him to alter it? It truly boggles the mind.

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  12. #22
    Member Billy Hamilton's Legs's Avatar
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    Re: Joey Votto - 'I want every single RBI, every single run'

    At least Welsh brings some fresh air to the conversation. I don't think he would necessarily call out Thom on the air, but his embrace of nuanced statistics is welcomed
    Just call me Legs

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    Re: Joey Votto - 'I want every single RBI, every single run'

    [QUOTE=Always Red;2943143]Brantley and Thom were on him right away, in the 1st inning last night, in a mostly passive-aggressive way, extolling the virtues of both Goldschmidt and Phillips, and then describing Votto's goal at the plate is "to not make an out".

    Brantley then recalled a recent meeting with Jim Leyland, in which he told JB that Cabrera expands his strike zone in every RBI situation. Then there was silence. But they had already said what they wanted to say, and let the viewer fill in the blanks.



    The fact that you filled in the blanks in a negative way doesn't me everybody did. I didn't see anything critical in their comments. Brantley said "you want your players to strive for perfection" after the "not make an out" comment. How is that a knock on Joey? Sounds like an endorsement to me.

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    Re: Joey Votto - 'I want every single RBI, every single run'

    Quote Originally Posted by miamiredskin View Post
    The fact that you filled in the blanks in a negative way doesn't me everybody did. I didn't see anything critical in their comments. Brantley said "you want your players to strive for perfection" after the "not make an out" comment. How is that a knock on Joey? Sounds like an endorsement to me.
    Implied in those comments is a false dichotomy between players whose goal is "to not make an out" and players whose goal is to "get a hit". They were clearly (passive-aggressively, but it was still clear) saying Votto isn't primarily concerned with getting a hit, like Goldschmidt, to use their example. So, using their logic, Votto will try to get a walk if he can rather than try to get a hit.

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  17. #25
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: Joey Votto - 'I want every single RBI, every single run'

    Ive never been able to correctly format charts, but here are the top ten mlb players ranked by Runs Created. That's a pretty darn look at who has been producing this season.

    Code:
    RK	PLAYER	       TEAM	 AVG	RC	RC27	ISOP	SECA	GB	FB	G/F	AB/HR	BB/PA	BB/K
    1	Miguel Cabrera	DET	.360	123.5	11.04	.329	.498	144	226	0.64	11.1	.138	0.96
    2	Mike Trout	LAA	.333	117.3	9.60	.241	.456	166	214	0.78	22.3	.138	0.81
    3	Chris Davis	BAL	.305	113.0	9.47	.381	.497	111	194	0.57	10.0	.103	0.35
    4	Joey Votto	CIN	.316	101.2	8.30	.187	.404	162	191	0.85	25.3	.172	0.90
    5	Paul Gldschmdt	ARI	.296	94.8	7.38	.251	.429	155	194	0.80	15.3	.135	0.64
    6	Andrew McCtchn	PIT	.317	91.9	7.50	.190	.350	160	221	0.72	26.9	.106	0.70
    7	Adrian Beltre	TEX	.324	91.1	7.19	.205	.283	170	266	0.64	19.5	.070	0.73
    8	Shin-Soo Choo	CIN	.278	89.1	7.21	.167	.363	172	167	1.03	29.5	.149	0.77
    9	Matt Carpenter	STL	.312	88.6	6.94	.162	.266	166	252	0.66	53.4	.095	0.74
    10	David Ortiz	BOS	.323	88.3	8.20	.258	.409	138	202	0.68	16.8	.123	0.89
    Last edited by Plus Plus; 08-20-2013 at 01:49 PM. Reason: cleaned up for viewing
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

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  19. #26
    Start the Reactor! *BaseClogger*'s Avatar
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    Re: Joey Votto - 'I want every single RBI, every single run'

    When you're watching a Reds game and Choo comes to the plate, do you feel like the eight best hitter in MLB just stepped into the box?
    "On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage," Baker said. "Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me."

  20. #27
    Member Mitri's Avatar
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    Re: Joey Votto - 'I want every single RBI, every single run'

    Quote Originally Posted by *BaseClogger* View Post
    When you're watching a Reds game and Choo comes to the plate, do you feel like the eight best hitter in MLB just stepped into the box?
    Absolutely.

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  22. #28
    Salukifan2
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    Re: Joey Votto - 'I want every single RBI, every single run'

    Marty seems to be overreacting a lot on votto. Marty bashing votto appears to happen ever day with how often it is discussed on RZ.

    But, as of right now Joey is on pace for two more extrabase hits this year than last. Except last year he only played in 111 games. He will probably end up with his worst slg% of his career so far. He is on pace this season to set his new career high in strikeouts (I am someone who still believes strikeouts are bad. Everyone's BABIP is .000 if they K). Compound that with the fact that he is having the worst defensive season since '09.

    Before people jump all over me, remember that I believe joey is the best batter in the NL, but people shouldn't be criticised for taking note that he is having possibly the worst season of his career at the same time the reds have their best opportunity to win a championship, he is in his age 29 season (which should be his most productive), and he just signed the 4th richest contract in MLB history.

    I still love votto and think watching him at the plate is like watching Picasso work on canvas, but that doesn't mean myself or anyone else isn't allowed to notice that he isn't playing like per injury votto.

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  24. #29
    nothing more than a fan Always Red's Avatar
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    Re: Joey Votto - 'I want every single RBI, every single run'

    Quote Originally Posted by miamiredskin View Post

    The fact that you filled in the blanks in a negative way doesn't me everybody did. I didn't see anything critical in their comments. Brantley said "you want your players to strive for perfection" after the "not make an out" comment. How is that a knock on Joey? Sounds like an endorsement to me.
    I went where they led me and it sounded to me that their point was that Miguel Cabrera expands his strike zone in RBI situations, and Joey Votto tries not to make outs.

    Now, maybe I completely missed it, and it was a ringing endorsement of Joey's RBI totals, which have been a topic of conversation among the Brennamans.

    You and I are not the only ones to have heard this; maybe we need a poll to see what everyone else heard?

  25. #30
    My clutch is broken RichRed's Avatar
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    Re: Joey Votto - 'I want every single RBI, every single run'

    Quote Originally Posted by Always Red View Post
    I went where they led me and it sounded to me that their point was that Miguel Cabrera expands his strike zone in RBI situations, and Joey Votto tries not to make outs.

    Now, maybe I completely missed it, and it was a ringing endorsement of Joey's RBI totals, which have been a topic of conversation among the Brennamans.

    You and I are not the only ones to have heard this; maybe we need a poll to see what everyone else heard?
    I heard it the way you did. Subtlety is not something Thom and Brantley are familiar with; it was pretty clear to me what they were getting at. If they had been admiring Votto's approach and results at the plate, it would've gone against the narrative they, along with Marty and Daugherty, have been building all season.
    "I can make all the stadiums rock."
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