Turn Off Ads?
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 42

Thread: Votto leads the team in OPS with RISP

Hybrid View

  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    98

    Votto leads the team in OPS with RISP

    I wonder how many people realize that. For all his "unclutchness" and inability to "get the job done" with RISP, he has been the Reds best batter with RISP. Go figure.

    In fact his .964 OPS with RISP is better than his .938 overall OPS this year. But I guess letting facts get in the way of a good argument isn't a fun time.

  2. #2
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Upstate New York
    Posts
    1,735

    Re: Votto leads the team in OPS with RISP

    Quote Originally Posted by SlimJim11 View Post
    I wonder how many people realize that. For all his "unclutchness" and inability to "get the job done" with RISP, he has been the Reds best batter with RISP. Go figure.

    In fact his .964 OPS with RISP is better than his .938 overall OPS this year. But I guess letting facts get in the way of a good argument isn't a fun time.
    I haven't seen anyone arguing this point?
    Last edited by New York Red; 08-20-2013 at 02:40 PM. Reason: Typo
    "I talked to an advance scout that told me if Joey Votto and Albert Pujols were on the same team he'd advise his team to do the unthinkable...pitch around Votto to get to Pujols." - Buster Olney, ESPN

  3. #3
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Cincy
    Posts
    961

    Re: Votto leads the team in OPS with RISP

    Pretty odd stat. He gets walked a ton when their is a man on 2nd and less than 2 outs. I don't think it's hard to figure out that his OBP will be high with RISP.

  4. Likes:

    Kingspoint (08-22-2013)

  5. #4
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    98

    Re: Votto leads the team in OPS with RISP

    People often argue that Votto "doesn't hit well in the clutch" and that he has been bad with RISP.

    Obviously he has been a little down this year from what he's done in the past, but his numbers are still great. When you factor in his knee (I think he's been looking better and better on it as the season goes) it's easy to see how he could have had a "down" year this year.

    I think part of the problem with Votto's number this year (from the negative people) are how flat out amazing they were the past 3 years with RISP. Everybody compares him to Miggy, well from 2010-2012 Miggy wished he hit as well with RISP as Votto.

    Stats from 2010-2012

    Cabrera

    .355/.470/.591/1.061 with 23 homers and 243 rbi in 467 AB's with RISP

    Votto

    .375/.514/.683/1.197 with 25 homers and 184 rbi in 344 AB's with RISP

    So Vottos splits are better across the board and he had more HR and RBI per AB with RISP than Cabrera.


    So the talent and skill level are all there, he's just having a great season instead of an absolutely insane season.

  6. #5
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Cincy
    Posts
    361

    Re: Votto leads the team in OPS with RISP

    I disagree with the Votto criticism levied by Doc and maybe others, but I don't think this particular stat disproves the allegation. I'm pretty sure his OPS with RISP is very OBP driven.

    Again I don't agree with Doc's allegation, but I just think this is the wrong stat to disprove it. What is his BA with RISP in 2013?

  7. Likes:

    Kingspoint (08-22-2013)

  8. #6
    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    North Canton, OH
    Posts
    2,926

    Re: Votto leads the team in OPS with RISP

    Quote Originally Posted by Pony Boy View Post
    I'm pretty sure his OPS with RISP is very OBP driven.

    but I just think this is the wrong stat to disprove it. What is his BA with RISP in 2013?
    Instead of being "pretty sure" (in this case, wrong), why not just look it up? It literally took me 20 seconds to answer both of your above questions. www.baseball-reference.com

    Batting Average with RISP = .314
    OBP with RISP = .469
    Slugging% with RISP = .495

    These are all very good numbers with RISP.

  9. Likes:

    Larkin Fan (08-20-2013), Raisor (08-23-2013), SlimJim11 (08-20-2013)

  10. #7
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    All around
    Posts
    7,532

    Re: Votto leads the team in OPS with RISP

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo! View Post
    Instead of being "pretty sure" (in this case, wrong), why not just look it up? It literally took me 20 seconds to answer both of your above questions. www.baseball-reference.com

    Batting Average with RISP = .314
    OBP with RISP = .469
    Slugging% with RISP = .495

    These are all very good numbers with RISP.
    Because 20 seconds for you is a lie. Why belittle someone like that? You also don't know their circumstances. They could be using a droid, to where it could take several minutes to look it up if they are traveling. There could be a number of other situations that keeps them from doing it. Or perhaps, being exact, isn't necessary for something that is so obvious to everyone, that Votto's OPS is OBP driven. No need for you to get on someone like that for a simple post they were making.

  11. #8
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    98

    Re: Votto leads the team in OPS with RISP

    Quote Originally Posted by Pony Boy View Post
    I'm pretty sure his OPS with RISP is very OBP driven.
    Also you say this like it's a bad thing. Why is it bad to get on base and not make an out?

    Which scenario do you think scores more runs long term.

    Scenario 1

    1 run in, 0 runners on, and 1 out


    Scenario 2

    0 runs in, runners on first and 3rd, and 0 outs

  12. #9
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    All around
    Posts
    7,532

    Re: Votto leads the team in OPS with RISP

    Quote Originally Posted by SlimJim11 View Post
    Also you say this like it's a bad thing. Why is it bad to get on base and not make an out?

    Which scenario do you think scores more runs long term.

    Scenario 1

    1 run in, 0 runners on, and 1 out


    Scenario 2

    0 runs in, runners on first and 3rd, and 0 outs
    Because Votto needs to be driving in runs. The players who drive in runs on a consistent basis open up their strike zone in situations when there's an opportunity for driving in runs.

    When the rest of the lineup starts hitting better, Votto's decision to not open up his strike zone in run-producing opportunities won't be an issue, as Votto could end up scoring 150+ runs in a season, making up for the lower RBI total from this season.

    As Cozart and Frazier enter their third full seasons, and Mesoraco enters his second full season, all three of these players will end up driving in Votto more often (and giving Votto more opportunities for runs to be batted in).

    This doesn't include the assumed production that will come from Left Field next season as Heisey is a year older and Ludwick is healthy again.

  13. #10
    Big Red Machine RedsBaron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    Out Wayne
    Posts
    22,761

    Re: Votto leads the team in OPS with RISP

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingspoint View Post
    The players who drive in runs on a consistent basis open up their strike zone in situations when there's an opportunity for driving in runs.
    Any evidence to support that assertion?
    Babe Ruth had 2220 career RBI and also walked a bunch. Barry Bonds is perhaps my least favorite player ever, but he had 1996 career RBI and walked more in a single season than anybody. Ted Williams had 1839 career RBI in a career shortened by nearly five seasons because of military service and he regularly walked 150 times a season and refused to expand his strike zone for anyone.
    Other than perhaps Vlad Guerrero, Yogi Berra, Paul Daugherty and Marty Brennaman, who are the MLB hitters who ever had any great success intentionally expanding their strike zone to swing at pitches than are not strikes?
    "Hey...Dad. Wanna Have A Catch?" Kevin Costner in "Field Of Dreams."

  14. Likes:

    Raisor (08-23-2013)

  15. #11
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Upstate New York
    Posts
    1,735

    Re: Votto leads the team in OPS with RISP

    Quote Originally Posted by SlimJim11 View Post
    People often argue that Votto "doesn't hit well in the clutch" and that he has been bad with RISP.

    Obviously he has been a little down this year from what he's done in the past, but his numbers are still great. When you factor in his knee (I think he's been looking better and better on it as the season goes) it's easy to see how he could have had a "down" year this year.

    I think part of the problem with Votto's number this year (from the negative people) are how flat out amazing they were the past 3 years with RISP. Everybody compares him to Miggy, well from 2010-2012 Miggy wished he hit as well with RISP as Votto.

    Stats from 2010-2012

    Cabrera

    .355/.470/.591/1.061 with 23 homers and 243 rbi in 467 AB's with RISP

    Votto

    .375/.514/.683/1.197 with 25 homers and 184 rbi in 344 AB's with RISP

    So Vottos splits are better across the board and he had more HR and RBI per AB with RISP than Cabrera.


    So the talent and skill level are all there, he's just having a great season instead of an absolutely insane season.
    Joey is my favorite Red, but his critics this year are right in one regard. He hasn't hit well with RISP and 2 outs, and I don't think anyone would argue that. I haven't seen anyone complaining about his OBP or OPS w/RISP.
    "I talked to an advance scout that told me if Joey Votto and Albert Pujols were on the same team he'd advise his team to do the unthinkable...pitch around Votto to get to Pujols." - Buster Olney, ESPN

  16. #12
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    35,107

    Re: Votto leads the team in OPS with RISP

    Quote Originally Posted by New York Red View Post
    Joey is my favorite Red, but his critics this year are right in one regard. He hasn't hit well with RISP and 2 outs, and I don't think anyone would argue that.
    It also makes up less than 9% of his total plate appearances and people are hanging their "Votto is unclutch" hat on it.

  17. #13
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    All around
    Posts
    7,532

    Re: Votto leads the team in OPS with RISP

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    It also makes up less than 9% of his total plate appearances and people are hanging their "Votto is unclutch" hat on it.
    Has anyone truly suggested that Votto is unclutch? I certainly haven't. I thought that most people who think Votto isn't producing enough runs batted in has to do with his plate approach, not his ability to produce in the clutch.

    Votto is the most consistent hitter the REDS have ever had. It doesn't matter the situation, who's pitching, etc. He produces the same numbers all the time. He just doesn't have slumps.

    Those who would like to see Votto produce more RBI's would like to see his approach change when the run-producing opportunities are there. We would like to see him expand his strike zone or swing sometimes at the first fastball-strike he sees (because it may be the only one he gets).

    Votto is great enough that expanding his strike zone under run-producing situations will have a more positive impact in producing a greater number of runs for the team, especially with the weakness of the lower part of the lineup this season.

  18. #14
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    18,647

    Re: Votto leads the team in OPS with RISP

    Quote Originally Posted by New York Red View Post
    Joey is my favorite Red, but his critics this year are right in one regard. He hasn't hit well with RISP and 2 outs, and I don't think anyone would argue that. I haven't seen anyone complaining about his OBP or OPS w/RISP.
    What a strange way to evaluate a player.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  19. Likes:

    Raisor (08-23-2013)

  20. #15
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Location
    Westerville, OH
    Posts
    10,779

    Re: Votto leads the team in OPS with RISP

    Quote Originally Posted by New York Red View Post
    Joey is my favorite Red, but his critics this year are right in one regard. He hasn't hit well with RISP and 2 outs, and I don't think anyone would argue that. I haven't seen anyone complaining about his OBP or OPS w/RISP.
    Yep and sensible individuals would never draw a conclusion about how good or bad a player's season was by such a limited number of ABs. That would be silly.


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25