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Thread: Votto leads the team in OPS with RISP

  1. #1
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    Votto leads the team in OPS with RISP

    I wonder how many people realize that. For all his "unclutchness" and inability to "get the job done" with RISP, he has been the Reds best batter with RISP. Go figure.

    In fact his .964 OPS with RISP is better than his .938 overall OPS this year. But I guess letting facts get in the way of a good argument isn't a fun time.

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    Re: Votto leads the team in OPS with RISP

    Quote Originally Posted by SlimJim11 View Post
    I wonder how many people realize that. For all his "unclutchness" and inability to "get the job done" with RISP, he has been the Reds best batter with RISP. Go figure.

    In fact his .964 OPS with RISP is better than his .938 overall OPS this year. But I guess letting facts get in the way of a good argument isn't a fun time.
    I haven't seen anyone arguing this point?
    Last edited by New York Red; 08-20-2013 at 02:40 PM. Reason: Typo
    "I talked to an advance scout that told me if Joey Votto and Albert Pujols were on the same team he'd advise his team to do the unthinkable...pitch around Votto to get to Pujols." - Buster Olney, ESPN

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    Re: Votto leads the team in OPS with RISP

    Pretty odd stat. He gets walked a ton when their is a man on 2nd and less than 2 outs. I don't think it's hard to figure out that his OBP will be high with RISP.

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    Kingspoint (08-22-2013)

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    Re: Votto leads the team in OPS with RISP

    People often argue that Votto "doesn't hit well in the clutch" and that he has been bad with RISP.

    Obviously he has been a little down this year from what he's done in the past, but his numbers are still great. When you factor in his knee (I think he's been looking better and better on it as the season goes) it's easy to see how he could have had a "down" year this year.

    I think part of the problem with Votto's number this year (from the negative people) are how flat out amazing they were the past 3 years with RISP. Everybody compares him to Miggy, well from 2010-2012 Miggy wished he hit as well with RISP as Votto.

    Stats from 2010-2012

    Cabrera

    .355/.470/.591/1.061 with 23 homers and 243 rbi in 467 AB's with RISP

    Votto

    .375/.514/.683/1.197 with 25 homers and 184 rbi in 344 AB's with RISP

    So Vottos splits are better across the board and he had more HR and RBI per AB with RISP than Cabrera.


    So the talent and skill level are all there, he's just having a great season instead of an absolutely insane season.

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    Re: Votto leads the team in OPS with RISP

    I disagree with the Votto criticism levied by Doc and maybe others, but I don't think this particular stat disproves the allegation. I'm pretty sure his OPS with RISP is very OBP driven.

    Again I don't agree with Doc's allegation, but I just think this is the wrong stat to disprove it. What is his BA with RISP in 2013?

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    Kingspoint (08-22-2013)

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    Re: Votto leads the team in OPS with RISP

    OPS shows you a lot more about the overall hitter than BA does. But his BA is .314 with RISP. I think Marty and Doc like to leave that one out.

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    Re: Votto leads the team in OPS with RISP

    Quote Originally Posted by Pony Boy View Post
    I'm pretty sure his OPS with RISP is very OBP driven.

    but I just think this is the wrong stat to disprove it. What is his BA with RISP in 2013?
    Instead of being "pretty sure" (in this case, wrong), why not just look it up? It literally took me 20 seconds to answer both of your above questions. www.baseball-reference.com

    Batting Average with RISP = .314
    OBP with RISP = .469
    Slugging% with RISP = .495

    These are all very good numbers with RISP.

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    Larkin Fan (08-20-2013), Raisor (08-23-2013), SlimJim11 (08-20-2013)

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    Re: Votto leads the team in OPS with RISP

    Quote Originally Posted by SlimJim11 View Post
    People often argue that Votto "doesn't hit well in the clutch" and that he has been bad with RISP.

    Obviously he has been a little down this year from what he's done in the past, but his numbers are still great. When you factor in his knee (I think he's been looking better and better on it as the season goes) it's easy to see how he could have had a "down" year this year.

    I think part of the problem with Votto's number this year (from the negative people) are how flat out amazing they were the past 3 years with RISP. Everybody compares him to Miggy, well from 2010-2012 Miggy wished he hit as well with RISP as Votto.

    Stats from 2010-2012

    Cabrera

    .355/.470/.591/1.061 with 23 homers and 243 rbi in 467 AB's with RISP

    Votto

    .375/.514/.683/1.197 with 25 homers and 184 rbi in 344 AB's with RISP

    So Vottos splits are better across the board and he had more HR and RBI per AB with RISP than Cabrera.


    So the talent and skill level are all there, he's just having a great season instead of an absolutely insane season.
    Joey is my favorite Red, but his critics this year are right in one regard. He hasn't hit well with RISP and 2 outs, and I don't think anyone would argue that. I haven't seen anyone complaining about his OBP or OPS w/RISP.
    "I talked to an advance scout that told me if Joey Votto and Albert Pujols were on the same team he'd advise his team to do the unthinkable...pitch around Votto to get to Pujols." - Buster Olney, ESPN

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    Re: Votto leads the team in OPS with RISP

    Quote Originally Posted by Pony Boy View Post
    I'm pretty sure his OPS with RISP is very OBP driven.
    Also you say this like it's a bad thing. Why is it bad to get on base and not make an out?

    Which scenario do you think scores more runs long term.

    Scenario 1

    1 run in, 0 runners on, and 1 out


    Scenario 2

    0 runs in, runners on first and 3rd, and 0 outs

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    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Votto leads the team in OPS with RISP

    Quote Originally Posted by New York Red View Post
    Joey is my favorite Red, but his critics this year are right in one regard. He hasn't hit well with RISP and 2 outs, and I don't think anyone would argue that.
    It also makes up less than 9% of his total plate appearances and people are hanging their "Votto is unclutch" hat on it.

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    Re: Votto leads the team in OPS with RISP

    Quote Originally Posted by New York Red View Post
    Joey is my favorite Red, but his critics this year are right in one regard. He hasn't hit well with RISP and 2 outs, and I don't think anyone would argue that. I haven't seen anyone complaining about his OBP or OPS w/RISP.
    What a strange way to evaluate a player.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

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    Raisor (08-23-2013)

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    Re: Votto leads the team in OPS with RISP

    Quote Originally Posted by New York Red View Post
    Joey is my favorite Red, but his critics this year are right in one regard. He hasn't hit well with RISP and 2 outs, and I don't think anyone would argue that. I haven't seen anyone complaining about his OBP or OPS w/RISP.
    Yep and sensible individuals would never draw a conclusion about how good or bad a player's season was by such a limited number of ABs. That would be silly.

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    Re: Votto leads the team in OPS with RISP

    Quote Originally Posted by Larkin Fan View Post
    Yep and sensible individuals would never draw a conclusion about how good or bad a player's season was by such a limited number of ABs. That would be silly.
    I didn't and haven't drawn any conclusions. I just pointed out to the OP that his thread title isn't what Joey's critics have had an issue with. Not that I've seen anyway.
    "I talked to an advance scout that told me if Joey Votto and Albert Pujols were on the same team he'd advise his team to do the unthinkable...pitch around Votto to get to Pujols." - Buster Olney, ESPN

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    Re: Votto leads the team in OPS with RISP

    There has been talk all season about Votto not producing with RISP. I made this thread to show that he has in fact been the Reds best batter with RISP. Then all the people that say the bad things about Votto say things like "yeah well he only has that high of an OPS cause he walks a lot" like putting more guys on base is a bad thing. I just don't understand.

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    Re: Votto leads the team in OPS with RISP

    I understand. Slim you are right. It IS because he walks a lot. Then people who are his detractors say he needs to "expand his zone" which means, of course, swing at pitches that are bad pitches. Which means try to hit balls that likely cannot be hit well if at all which is stupid. Look at what happens when BP tries it. Foul, foul. Or lunging and missing. Not many hitters are a Vlad Guerrero and capable of hitting pitches out of the zone with authority. This insanity is led by the Reds announcers who crucify Votto every chance they get. I pointed out all this in the Votto for MVP thread but people misunderstood my post for criticism of Joey when I was just pointing out how the voters would criticize him because the writers who vote do NOT understand it either.


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