Lots of misunderstanding in this thread.
Lots of misunderstanding in this thread.
Yet nobody had a problem with Votto's approach the past 3 seasons when he put up the insane .375/.514/.683/1.197 line with RISP. The approach is the same approach.
I think it's a stupid assumption to think great run producers do so because they chase balls out of the zone and bloop them into the outfield for a soft single.
Miggy has been great this year because he's mashing balls in nearly every part of the strike zone.
Because 20 seconds for you is a lie. Why belittle someone like that? You also don't know their circumstances. They could be using a droid, to where it could take several minutes to look it up if they are traveling. There could be a number of other situations that keeps them from doing it. Or perhaps, being exact, isn't necessary for something that is so obvious to everyone, that Votto's OPS is OBP driven. No need for you to get on someone like that for a simple post they were making.
Because Votto needs to be driving in runs. The players who drive in runs on a consistent basis open up their strike zone in situations when there's an opportunity for driving in runs.
When the rest of the lineup starts hitting better, Votto's decision to not open up his strike zone in run-producing opportunities won't be an issue, as Votto could end up scoring 150+ runs in a season, making up for the lower RBI total from this season.
As Cozart and Frazier enter their third full seasons, and Mesoraco enters his second full season, all three of these players will end up driving in Votto more often (and giving Votto more opportunities for runs to be batted in).
This doesn't include the assumed production that will come from Left Field next season as Heisey is a year older and Ludwick is healthy again.
Has anyone truly suggested that Votto is unclutch? I certainly haven't. I thought that most people who think Votto isn't producing enough runs batted in has to do with his plate approach, not his ability to produce in the clutch.
Votto is the most consistent hitter the REDS have ever had. It doesn't matter the situation, who's pitching, etc. He produces the same numbers all the time. He just doesn't have slumps.
Those who would like to see Votto produce more RBI's would like to see his approach change when the run-producing opportunities are there. We would like to see him expand his strike zone or swing sometimes at the first fastball-strike he sees (because it may be the only one he gets).
Votto is great enough that expanding his strike zone under run-producing situations will have a more positive impact in producing a greater number of runs for the team, especially with the weakness of the lower part of the lineup this season.
Did you miss the stats where over the previous 3 seasons Votto put up better numbers across the board than Miggy with RISP? All of that with the same approach Votto uses now. If you've got a problem with an approach that leads to .375/.514/.683/1.197 then you have the problem, not Votto.
Also you didn't answer my question about the 2 scenarios. Which one do you think scores more runs long term?
Well the long term is over the course of a season, but I know why you aren't answering the question.
His approach is not producing less runs. You just act like it is. The Reds are 4th in the NL in runs, where do they come from?
Btw Votto leads the NL in runs created. So I'd love to know how he's producing less runs.
So you think scenario 1 I guess.
If you firmly believe Votto is not productive (even though he leads the NL in runs created) can you tell me, with stats, why you don't think he's being productive?
Any evidence to support that assertion?
Babe Ruth had 2220 career RBI and also walked a bunch. Barry Bonds is perhaps my least favorite player ever, but he had 1996 career RBI and walked more in a single season than anybody. Ted Williams had 1839 career RBI in a career shortened by nearly five seasons because of military service and he regularly walked 150 times a season and refused to expand his strike zone for anyone.
Other than perhaps Vlad Guerrero, Yogi Berra, Paul Daugherty and Marty Brennaman, who are the MLB hitters who ever had any great success intentionally expanding their strike zone to swing at pitches than are not strikes?
"Hey...Dad. Wanna Have A Catch?" Kevin Costner in "Field Of Dreams."
Raisor (08-23-2013)
It doesn't matter if he is leading the NL in runs created. Every other player on the team is creating more runs per dollar spent than Votto is. Votto is dead last on the REDS in creating runs per dollar invested.
There are completely different expectations for every player, and Votto is not reaching the expectations for him "this season".
Hmm, I guess you are just trolling this thread?
Marty Brennaman: "I don't care, he's still not getting the job done"
I really wish the Cincinnati media would stop beating up the star players on the Reds as soon as their paychecks get big. It's been going on far too long.
If Votto had 100 RBI now, they'd find something else to criticize about him.
[Phil ] Castellini celebrated the team's farm system and noted the team had promising prospects who would one day be great Reds -- and then joke then they'd be ex-Reds, saying "of course we're going to lose them". #SellTheTeamBob
Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!
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