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Thread: Broxton to the DL; needs surgery. Cueto to the 60 day DL, Nick Christiani called up

  1. #31
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    Re: Broxton to the DL; needs surgery. Cueto to the 60 day DL, Nick Christiani called

    Quote Originally Posted by NeilHamburger View Post
    So much for my dream of Broxton having a lights out last two months and then being able to deal him this offseason. This also makes it more likely Chapman stays in the bullpen.
    I think that boat has passed hasn't it?

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    Re: Broxton to the DL; needs surgery. Cueto to the 60 day DL, Nick Christiani called

    Quote Originally Posted by dougflynn23 View Post
    Broxton had more red flags than a May Day parade in Moscow. 300 pounds, a recent history of arm woes, brutal mechanics and a K/IP ratio that had reduced by 33% since his arm issues. I loved him as a July trade acquisition for two C-Level prospects, but to long term sign him was a risky move that backfired.
    I don't know about that acquisition. I know you can only use so many lefthanders, but Donnie Joseph's 14 k/9 would look pretty good pitching for the home town 9 right now. I think we share sentiments about the long term signing.
    "Even a bad day at the ballpark beats the snot out of most other good days. I'll take my scorecard and pencil and beer and hot dog and rage at the dips and cheer at the highs, but I'm not ever going to stop loving this game and this team and nobody will ever take that away from me." Roy Tucker October 2010

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    Re: Broxton to the DL; needs surgery. Cueto to the 60 day DL, Nick Christiani called

    Quote Originally Posted by dfs View Post
    I don't know about that acquisition. I know you can only use so many lefthanders, but Donnie Joseph's 14 k/9 would look pretty good pitching for the home town 9 right now. I think we share sentiments about the long term signing.
    Joseph might end up being a solid MLB releiver, but so far this season, he's pitched 3.1 innings, 3 K's, 4 BB's.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

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    Re: Broxton to the DL; needs surgery. Cueto to the 60 day DL, Nick Christiani called

    Anyone find out if there is anything in Broxton's contract that relieves the Reds of paying him next year if he doesn't pitch?
    Cincinnati Reds
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    malingered here too long malcontent's Avatar
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    Re: Broxton to the DL; needs surgery. Cueto to the 60 day DL, Nick Christiani called

    Quote Originally Posted by dfs View Post
    I don't know about that acquisition. I know you can only use so many lefthanders, but Donnie Joseph's 14 k/9 would look pretty good pitching for the home town 9 right now.
    It certainly would.

    I just reviewed his MiLB stats.

    I'll go out on a limb here....Jocketty lost that trade/signing.
    Everything is perfect, but there is a lot of room for improvement. --- Shunryu Suzuki-roshi

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    Re: Broxton to the DL; needs surgery. Cueto to the 60 day DL, Nick Christiani called

    Quote Originally Posted by malcontent View Post
    It certainly would.

    I just reviewed his MiLB stats.

    I'll go out on a limb here....Jocketty lost that trade/signing.
    Broxton was a big key to the Reds making the playoffs last season. The trade was a success, not matter what Joseph does in the future. The re-signing in the off season however...
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

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    Re: Broxton to the DL; needs surgery. Cueto to the 60 day DL, Nick Christiani called

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    It also shows why dumping tons of money on relievers is a poor strategy.
    Bingo. With the volatility of relief pitchers and availability of cheap, adequate replacements throwing a bunch of money at a relievers is a bad way to allocate resources.

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    malingered here too long malcontent's Avatar
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    Re: Broxton to the DL; needs surgery. Cueto to the 60 day DL, Nick Christiani called

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    Broxton was a big key to the Reds making the playoffs last season. The trade was a success, not matter what Joseph does in the future.
    I think that future production has to figure in.

    I'm reminded of the Rolen/Encarnacion trade in that regard. Rolen helped in 2010. He didn't help thereafter. Meanwhile, EE has turned into an offensive force.
    Everything is perfect, but there is a lot of room for improvement. --- Shunryu Suzuki-roshi

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    malingered here too long malcontent's Avatar
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    Re: Broxton to the DL; needs surgery. Cueto to the 60 day DL, Nick Christiani called

    I wish Jocketty would look for another LHP for the pen, instead of bringing up yet another guy with very mediocre MiLB stats.

    It might help come playoff time.
    Everything is perfect, but there is a lot of room for improvement. --- Shunryu Suzuki-roshi

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    Re: Broxton to the DL; needs surgery. Cueto to the 60 day DL, Nick Christiani called

    Quote Originally Posted by keeganbrick View Post
    Anyone find out if there is anything in Broxton's contract that relieves the Reds of paying him next year if he doesn't pitch?
    There is no such clause in his contract. Some guys have "vesting options" where they have to hit a certain milestone such as innings pitched, games started, games finished, etc for their contract to roll over or to gain additional financial bonuses.

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    Re: Broxton to the DL; needs surgery. Cueto to the 60 day DL, Nick Christiani called

    Quote Originally Posted by malcontent View Post
    I think that future production has to figure in.

    I'm reminded of the Rolen/Encarnacion trade in that regard. Rolen helped in 2010. He didn't help thereafter. Meanwhile, EE has turned into an offensive force.
    EE was also on waivers after the trade, and picked up by Oakland. He was then non-tendered, and the BJ's signed him as a FA. Therefore, any team could have picked him up. In essence, Toronto did not get the present day EE in a trade; they picked him up as a FA.

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  14. #42
    I hate the Cubs LoganBuck's Avatar
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    Re: Broxton to the DL; needs surgery. Cueto to the 60 day DL, Nick Christiani called

    Quote Originally Posted by keeganbrick View Post
    Anyone find out if there is anything in Broxton's contract that relieves the Reds of paying him next year if he doesn't pitch?
    Without looking: NO!

    The union would never allow such a deal.
    The Sox traded Bullfrog the only player they've got for Shottenhoffen. Four-eyes Shottenhoffen a utility infielder. They've got a whole team of utility infielders.

  15. #43
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    Re: Broxton to the DL; needs surgery. Cueto to the 60 day DL, Nick Christiani called

    Give it 10-20 years, but I think your long career reliever will soon be pretty much extinct. There is an increasing number of guys on the planet that can effectively pump 95 mph gas for an inning. As soon as a guy starts costing a few million, ship him out and bring on the next minimum wage guy. Probably easier said than done, but if doing so was a franchise-wide goal with everyone on board, it could probably be done.

  16. #44
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    Re: Broxton to the DL; needs surgery. Cueto to the 60 day DL, Nick Christiani called

    Quote Originally Posted by nmculbreth View Post
    Bingo. With the volatility of relief pitchers and availability of cheap, adequate replacements throwing a bunch of money at a relievers is a bad way to allocate resources.
    I guess I disgree that there's a lot of cheap, adequate relievers that are available.

    The price for quality relief pitching has skyrocketed, because it's scarce.

    Back in the 80's no team would ever trade a starting position player for a reliever. It has happened several times in recent years. Lowrie was traded for a reliever, for example. Andrew Bailey fetched Reddick and two prospects.
    And of course, Kearns and Lopez.

    We can look at the waiver wire fodder this past winter and see that over 1/2 of those guys did not pan out. Heck, the Reds actually made a great pickup in Parra this offseason and the board was screaming to DFA him. The Reds call up a marginal guy like Virreal to fill a gap, and everyone is so disappointed that the Reds can't find anyone better.

    The Reds were trying to win a WS this year. Seems like it makes sense to collect as much pitching as possible (including the bullpen). Broxton was willing to sign here, and his price was not that exhorbitant. It gave the Reds enough depth to try to put Chapman in the rotation. It also gave us some depth when Marshall went down with injury.

    I like how Walt didn't put all his eggs in one basket and grabbed as many quality relievers as possible. Walt/Dusty/Price does a great job of integrating "projects" into the bullpen (Hoover, Simon, Parra). But when the team is contending, you can't start the season with 4 projects in the bullpen.
    That's a recipe for disaster. You need guys like Broxton in the pen.

    Not to pick on you, but just because Broxton ended up getting hurt doesn't mean this was a bad plan. That's kind of like saying it was dumb to sign Cueto because he was lost for most of this year too.. No one is saying that of course, but it's a similiar argument. Pitchers get hurt, that's why you can never have too much pitching.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

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    Re: Broxton to the DL; needs surgery. Cueto to the 60 day DL, Nick Christiani called

    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    EE was also on waivers after the trade, and picked up by Oakland. He was then non-tendered, and the BJ's signed him as a FA. Therefore, any team could have picked him up. In essence, Toronto did not get the present day EE in a trade; they picked him up as a FA.
    Interesting. I didn't know he had been waived and Oakland had him picked him up.
    Everything is perfect, but there is a lot of room for improvement. --- Shunryu Suzuki-roshi


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