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Thread: Most overrated player in baseball?

  1. #61
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    Re: Most overrated player in baseball?

    Jeter was overrated for so long he became underrated after people caught on that the hype wasn't as good as the actual product.

    I vehemently disagree with the Ichiro pick. Having a consistent .350-.400 guy at the top of your order is a pretty nice asset. Ichiro, at the top of his game, was an absolute wizard of bat control.

    I do sort of sympathize with the Ellsbury mention. Right now though, the Puig stuff is by far, without hesitation, the most overrated in the game right at this moment. Puig's numbers, with a normalized xBABIP, would lend themselves to about a .775 OPS. That is not deserving of much hype.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

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  3. #62
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    Re: Most overrated player in baseball?

    Until I think of a better pick, BJ Upton wins for me.

    Also, OPS is a shorthand stat. It's often very telling, but it doesn't tell you enough about High-obp leadoff types. One point of "O" is much more valuable than one point of "S." The Ichiro of a few years back was very valuable and one of my favorite players to watch.

    The funny thing about the underrated/overrated debate is that often players who are way underrated, if they stick around long enough, become way overrated. For years, Biggio and Abreu were completely overlooked because they were good at everything but not outstanding in the classic categories. By the end, they had hung on for too long and became prime candidates for this list
    ". . . acquiring J. Blanton from Oakland for, apparently, Bailey/Cueto, Votto and a lesser prospect. I do it in a second . . . The Reds' equation this year is simple: Make Matt Belisle your #3 starter . . . trade for Blanton, win 85 or more, be in the mix all summer." - Paul Daugherty, Feb. 8, 2008

  4. #63
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    Re: Most overrated player in baseball?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ironman92 View Post
    Zobrist
    Why? To me, he's a prime candidate for the underrated list.
    ". . . acquiring J. Blanton from Oakland for, apparently, Bailey/Cueto, Votto and a lesser prospect. I do it in a second . . . The Reds' equation this year is simple: Make Matt Belisle your #3 starter . . . trade for Blanton, win 85 or more, be in the mix all summer." - Paul Daugherty, Feb. 8, 2008

  5. #64
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    Re: Most overrated player in baseball?

    Carlos Gomez is having a great year, but he doesn't pass the eye test for me. He doesn't seem to understand the team game, and only seems to be interested in his own numbers and himself. He goes up there with his team down by 3 runs, and instead of trying to get on base and be a catalyst, he just swings for the fences and ends up striking out. The team is having a brutal season, I get it, but he just doesn't seem to play the game the right way.
    Choo got it, dude.

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    Re: Most overrated player in baseball?

    Quote Originally Posted by cincinnati chili View Post
    Why? To me, he's a prime candidate for the underrated list.
    Because many on these boards believe he is so valuable. WAR started it.

  7. #66
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    Re: Most overrated player in baseball?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ohayou View Post
    Carlos Gomez is having a great year, but he doesn't pass the eye test for me. He doesn't seem to understand the team game, and only seems to be interested in his own numbers and himself. He goes up there with his team down by 3 runs, and instead of trying to get on base and be a catalyst, he just swings for the fences and ends up striking out. The team is having a brutal season, I get it, but he just doesn't seem to play the game the right way.
    Your eye test seems suspect to me. How do you know he isn't trying to get on base and "be a catalyst"? The dude leads the league in WAR, too. And for the purposes of this thread, I don't think Gomez is even a known quantity to casual fans, so he doesn't qualify as "overrated" IMO.

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    Re: Most overrated player in baseball?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ironman92 View Post
    Because many on these boards believe he is so valuable. WAR started it.
    . I am not a WAR guy because I hate the defensive component entirely and am skeptical of the calculation of replacement level somewhat. I am a big fan of rc27 because I've seen the regression analysis that backs it up. Last year if I recall correctly be played more than 20 games at ss, 20 games at 2b, and oodles in the of. In terms of rc27 he was something like number 1 among shortstops, number 2 among 2b and in the too 10 at rf.
    I think he is overlooked because he plays for tb, a lot of his value comes from walks, not batting average, he strikes out a fair amount, and early in his career he was legitimately awful as a major leaguer
    ". . . acquiring J. Blanton from Oakland for, apparently, Bailey/Cueto, Votto and a lesser prospect. I do it in a second . . . The Reds' equation this year is simple: Make Matt Belisle your #3 starter . . . trade for Blanton, win 85 or more, be in the mix all summer." - Paul Daugherty, Feb. 8, 2008

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    Re: Most overrated player in baseball?

    Allen Craig.

    He's a poor defending 1B with an .800 OPS. That's fine, Lyle Overbay territory, but Craig was an All-Star this year (mostly because he got hot right at the break), and some have mentioned him as an MVP candidate.

    He's the Cardinals version of Philllips. He has a bunch of RBI's but mostly because he has Carpenter/Beltran/Holiday hitting in front of him. He's not a bad player, a league average 1B, but that's not that special and Craig gets talked about as if he's one of the best players in the league.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

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  12. #69
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    Re: Most overrated player in baseball?

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    Allen Craig.

    He's a poor defending 1B with an .800 OPS. That's fine, Lyle Overbay territory, but Craig was an All-Star this year (mostly because he got hot right at the break), and some have mentioned him as an MVP candidate.

    He's the Cardinals version of Philllips. He has a bunch of RBI's but mostly because he has Carpenter/Beltran/Holiday hitting in front of him. He's not a bad player, a league average 1B, but that's not that special and Craig gets talked about as if he's one of the best players in the league.
    I agree for everything except the RBI. He has been insane w risp this year. I'm pretty sure he is challenging Brett for the record.

    With no one on base his batting average is still somewhere around .260. Yet, he is a .310 hitter.
    Last edited by Salukifan2; 08-24-2013 at 01:07 PM.

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    Re: Most overrated player in baseball?

    Honestly - and I am a fan of this guy but have watched him closely and extensively this year......

    Bryce Harper.

    The guy is not the hitter he was last year. I don't care that he's 20. He's over a year in now and for all the attention and hype and "Lebron of baseball talk" and embodiment of the game that scouts said he would be he is not even close. He's an average ballplayer who has not made strides as a defender. Add to that the fact that he's made of glass and can't go a week without getting dinged and missing time and I think it's easy to see he has a LONG way to go as a player
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    Re: Most overrated player in baseball?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghosts of 1990 View Post
    Honestly - and I am a fan of this guy but have watched him closely and extensively this year......

    Bryce Harper.

    The guy is not the hitter he was last year. I don't care that he's 20. He's over a year in now and for all the attention and hype and "Lebron of baseball talk" and embodiment of the game that scouts said he would be he is not even close. He's an average ballplayer who has not made strides as a defender. Add to that the fact that he's made of glass and can't go a week without getting dinged and missing time and I think it's easy to see he has a LONG way to go as a player
    He's actually having a better offensive season this year than last. Defensively he's been banged up. I think he's having a very nice season and it's one befitting of a young star.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

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  17. #72
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    Re: Most overrated player in baseball?

    Quote Originally Posted by Salukifan2 View Post
    I agree for everything except the RBI. He has been insane w risp this year. I'm pretty sure he is challenging Brett for the record.

    With no one on base his batting average is still somewhere around .260. Yet, he is a .310 hitter.
    He has been insane, but a .463 BABIP w/RISP will lead to some misleading results.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

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    Re: Most overrated player in baseball?

    Stephen Strasburg and James Shields

  19. #74
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    Re: Most overrated player in baseball?

    Quote Originally Posted by IABucFan View Post
    Stephen Strasburg and James Shields
    Tough, tough crowd tonight is all I've got to say..... Tap, Tap...is this thing on?
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  20. #75
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    Re: Most overrated player in baseball?

    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicDumpling View Post
    Ichiro Suzuki is the most overrated player in baseball today and possibly in the history of baseball. Many people think he is one of the most elite hitters in baseball history but the stats paint a different picture.

    Ichiro has a .778 OPS for his career, which is 83rd out of only 187 active players with 3000 career plate appearances. That is "middle of the pack" for those not too good at math. He is 621st out of about 1500 players in history with 3000+ Plate Appearances. Not very impressive by any stretch of the imagination.

    Ichiro's career OPS+ is only 112, which makes him a little above average as a hitter in his career, yet some people think he is an automatic 1st ballot Hall of Famer. Boggles my mind.

    I realize some people still love them some good old-fashioned Batting Average, but even there his career AVG is only .3199, good for 53rd all-time and 4th among active players. Not really one of the very best ever.

    He rarely works a walk, which really puts a damper on his OBP. He has very little power (0.096 Isolated Power) and rarely gets extra base hits. Ichiro is a slap hitter, nothing more. He is simply not an elite hitter.

    Even though Ichiro came to the USA after playing several seasons in Japan he is still 7th among all active players in career Plate Appearances (and will be 5th by the end of the season), so it is not like he has been cheated for lack of opportunity. By the time he retires he will likely be in the top 50 All Time for most plate appearances. He has averaged 727 PAs per season, a very high number.

    Ichiro is a good all-around player. He is a slightly above average hitter, an excellent baserunner and an excellent defensive outfielder. But he is not worthy of being labelled one of the best players in the history of the game. There have been hundreds of players who were a LOT better than Ichiro Suzuki.

    Derek Jeter and Jacoby Ellsbury are also highly overrated for many of the same reasons.
    Where do his 470 SB fit in? I know everyone has SB and I realize that while he goes from 1st-2nd...an actual double in certain situations would produce a run where his SB did not.

    He was CS 105 times so if you subtract that from his singles total but then add in his 470 more bases due to his SB his career SLUG% goes from .416 to .458, raising his OPS .042

    Did I overlook one of your stats that consider that or do SB's not count towards offense. I get that this is hitting and SB are base running.....but that has to be figured in on being rated as overrated.

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