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Thread: Most overrated player in baseball?

  1. #76
    post hype sleeper cincinnati chili's Avatar
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    Re: Most overrated player in baseball?

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    Allen Craig.

    He's a poor defending 1B with an .800 OPS. That's fine, Lyle Overbay territory, but Craig was an All-Star this year (mostly because he got hot right at the break), and some have mentioned him as an MVP candidate.

    He's the Cardinals version of Philllips. He has a bunch of RBI's but mostly because he has Carpenter/Beltran/Holiday hitting in front of him. He's not a bad player, a league average 1B, but that's not that special and Craig gets talked about as if he's one of the best players in the league.
    I dunno about this one. He has a 6.373 rc27 which is good in this offense/pitching environment, and is outstanding considering he did absolutely nothing but make outs in the month of April. He plays multiple positions competently. This is really the first year he's gotten props despite being quite good the two previous years, tearing up the minors before that, and getting zero respect from most prospect mavens.

    Jay Bruce is much more of an outmaker than this guy (5.444 rc27), and I'd but him on the overrated list way before Craig.
    ". . . acquiring J. Blanton from Oakland for, apparently, Bailey/Cueto, Votto and a lesser prospect. I do it in a second . . . The Reds' equation this year is simple: Make Matt Belisle your #3 starter . . . trade for Blanton, win 85 or more, be in the mix all summer." - Paul Daugherty, Feb. 8, 2008

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  3. #77
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    Re: Most overrated player in baseball?

    All overrated team:

    C - Salvador Perez, Matt Wieters (career slash line of .256, .322, .422 and worse this yr)
    1B - Prince this year; Justin Morneau over the last several
    2B - Jose Altuve
    3B - Manny Machado (might be great some day; not yet all that at the dish)
    SS - Elvis Andrus
    LF - Alfonso Soriano, Mark Trumbo; Cespedes this year
    CF - De Aza
    RF - Rios, Jay Bruce, Hunter Pence
    SP - Cole Hamels
    RP - Jim Johnson this year; Brandon League over the last several
    ". . . acquiring J. Blanton from Oakland for, apparently, Bailey/Cueto, Votto and a lesser prospect. I do it in a second . . . The Reds' equation this year is simple: Make Matt Belisle your #3 starter . . . trade for Blanton, win 85 or more, be in the mix all summer." - Paul Daugherty, Feb. 8, 2008

  4. #78
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    Re: Most overrated player in baseball?

    Quote Originally Posted by cincinnati chili View Post
    All overrated team:

    C - Salvador Perez, Matt Wieters (career slash line of .256, .322, .422 and worse this yr)
    1B - Prince this year; Justin Morneau over the last several
    2B - Jose Altuve
    3B - Manny Machado (might be great some day; not yet all that at the dish)
    SS - Elvis Andrus
    LF - Alfonso Soriano, Mark Trumbo; Cespedes this year
    CF - De Aza
    RF - Rios, Jay Bruce, Hunter Pence
    SP - Cole Hamels
    RP - Jim Johnson this year; Brandon League over the last several
    I didn't want to be the one to say Jay Bruce, but yeah. I don't think Altuve is popular enough to be overrated.

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    Re: Most overrated player in baseball?

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    I don't think Altuve is popular enough to be overrated.
    Maybe you're right but I picked him because he was a 2012 all star and - not that fantasy baseball popularity is the end-all-be-all barometer of how a guy is "rated" but - he is owned in 96% and started in 81% of cbs sportsline fantasy leagues (incidentally making him much more popular than his teammate Jed Lowrie). Those 30 stolen bases are not worth all the other stuff in any universe.
    ". . . acquiring J. Blanton from Oakland for, apparently, Bailey/Cueto, Votto and a lesser prospect. I do it in a second . . . The Reds' equation this year is simple: Make Matt Belisle your #3 starter . . . trade for Blanton, win 85 or more, be in the mix all summer." - Paul Daugherty, Feb. 8, 2008

  6. #80
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    Re: Most overrated player in baseball?

    I'm not going to say his name because there's just about no one that calls this guy overrated but who can guess this hall of famers career numbers and no he's not a pitcher.

    .262 .337 .328 .666

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    Re: Most overrated player in baseball?

    Quote Originally Posted by cincinnati chili View Post
    I dunno about this one. He has a 6.373 rc27 which is good in this offense/pitching environment, and is outstanding considering he did absolutely nothing but make outs in the month of April. He plays multiple positions competently. This is really the first year he's gotten props despite being quite good the two previous years, tearing up the minors before that, and getting zero respect from most prospect mavens.

    Jay Bruce is much more of an outmaker than this guy (5.444 rc27), and I'd but him on the overrated list way before Craig.
    Craig plays firstbase, poorly. It's easy to get a decent hitting bad glove 1B. He's Lyle Overbay, Adam LaRoche, Scott Hatteberg. He's a middle of the pack 1B. Not a bad player, a nice player to have in the cheap. But every team can find guys like this to play first base. He's not an All-Star, and definitley not an MVP candidate, but he's on many people's list this year.

    Bruce is an above average fielder and base runner. He clearly one if the best RF'ers in the league. The game isn't all about offense.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

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    Re: Most overrated player in baseball?

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Hook View Post
    I'm not going to say his name because there's just about no one that calls this guy overrated but who can guess this hall of famers career numbers and no he's not a pitcher.

    .262 .337 .328 .666


    I was never a big Ozzie Smith fan. Give me Barry any day.

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    Re: Most overrated player in baseball?

    Quote Originally Posted by PepperJack View Post
    I was never a big Ozzie Smith fan. Give me Barry any day.
    If it is Ozzie, and you think he's overrated, then I guess you never saw him play.

    One of the most underrated players in the game, imo. Cardinals were the dominant NL team in the 80's and they wouldn't have been if they had any other SS at that time. If they had advanced defensive stats back then, he would have put up the defensive equivilant of Bonds on PED's numbers.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

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  12. #84
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    Re: Most overrated player in baseball?

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    If it is Ozzie, and you think he's overrated, then I guess you never saw him play.

    One of the most underrated players in the game, imo. Cardinals were the dominant NL team in the 80's and they wouldn't have been if they had any other SS at that time. If they had advanced defensive stats back then, he would have put up the defensive equivilant of Bonds on PED's numbers.
    Bonds was the best bat I've ever seen. Ozzie was the best glove.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  13. #85
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    Re: Most overrated player in baseball?

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    Bonds was the best bat I've ever seen. Ozzie was the best glove.
    I wouldn't argue that one bit. I just wonder how many more hits the best ever would convert into outs during a season than what an average to above average SS wouldn't and how much of a difference it would make. My guess is that the number isn't enough to make up for some rather unimpressive offensive numbers.

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    Re: Most overrated player in baseball?

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Hook View Post
    I wouldn't argue that one bit. I just wonder how many more hits the best ever would convert into outs during a season than what an average to above average SS wouldn't and how much of a difference it would make. My guess is that the number isn't enough to make up for some rather unimpressive offensive numbers.
    I used to think that Barry Larkin was mostly as good as Ozzie with the glove, but he just simply didn't do somersaults so thereby didn't get the same recognition.

    However, it's interesting to see Sean Smith's Total Zone ratings for Smith compared to Larkin. The difference was shocking.

    Smith saved 239 runs in 19 seasons. Larkin saved a grand total of 27.9 runs in 19 seasons. Now, I don't subscribe to those numbers being wholly accurate and Smith, by his own admission, was working with some data in Retrosheet's files that were hit or miss, but I assume that kind of difference can't be wholly accounted for on error or incompleteness of data.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  15. #87
    5.3 Posts Abv Replacement BluegrassRedleg's Avatar
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    Re: Most overrated player in baseball?

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Hook View Post
    I wouldn't argue that one bit. I just wonder how many more hits the best ever would convert into outs during a season than what an average to above average SS wouldn't and how much of a difference it would make. My guess is that the number isn't enough to make up for some rather unimpressive offensive numbers.
    I think Bill James did some extensive work on that very question and came to the conclusion that it wasn't much at all. While mind-blowingly impressive on those plays, they weren't enough to make a huge difference in STL's total runs allowed and wins. People used to make comments like "Ozzie saves the Cards 100 runs a year," which was beyond laughable.
    Rounding third and heading for home...

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  17. #88
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    Re: Most overrated player in baseball?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus View Post
    I used to think that Barry Larkin was mostly as good as Ozzie with the glove, but he just simply didn't do somersaults so thereby didn't get the same recognition.

    However, it's interesting to see Sean Smith's Total Zone ratings for Smith compared to Larkin. The difference was shocking.

    Smith saved 239 runs in 19 seasons. Larkin saved a grand total of 27.9 runs in 19 seasons. Now, I don't subscribe to those numbers being wholly accurate and Smith, by his own admission, was working with some data in Retrosheet's files that were hit or miss, but I assume that kind of difference can't be wholly accounted for on error or incompleteness of data.
    Agree, even though Oz robbed Larkin of at least two GGs along the way based on rep alone.

    He was phenomenal in his prime. The play where he dives and barehands the bad hop remains the best play I've ever seen in MLB.
    Rounding third and heading for home...

  18. #89
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    Re: Most overrated player in baseball?

    Quote Originally Posted by BluegrassRedleg View Post
    Agree, even though Oz robbed Larkin of at least two GGs along the way based on rep alone.

    He was phenomenal in his prime. The play where he dives and barehands the bad hop remains the best play I've ever seen in MLB.
    It was definitely amazing.

    http://wapc.mlb.com/play/?content_id=13085687
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  19. #90
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    Re: Most overrated player in baseball?

    Josh Hamilton
    "Booing on opening day is like telling grandma her house smells like old lady."--WOY


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