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Thread: Cubs expected to pursue CHOO..

  1. #91
    I thought you'd be bigger OldXOhio's Avatar
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    Re: Cubs expected to pursue CHOO..

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    I don't see how Walt can open up meaningful money via trade unless it is Phillips or Votto. He could open up salary for next year, but Choo is going to command a long-term deal.
    BP is exactly who i was inferring
    Originally Posted by nate
    Chapman can be downright pornographic at times.

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  3. #92
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Cubs expected to pursue CHOO..

    Quote Originally Posted by junkhead View Post
    Code:
                                              
    Rk                 Pos   BA  OBP  SLG  OPS
    2    1B  Nick Swisher# .243 .340 .407 .747
    7    CF Michael Bourn* .271 .323 .361 .683
    8    RF    Drew Stubbs .240 .302 .370 .672
    And who would Cleveland be running out there if they didn't sign those guys?

    Bourne and Stubbs have a lot of defensive value too.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  4. #93
    Member Old school 1983's Avatar
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    Re: Cubs expected to pursue CHOO..

    Quote Originally Posted by bellhead View Post
    I agree with everything your saying also add in the Yorman factor who has to be on the roster in 15..... If he keeps improving he could well be the starting LF in 15. The thing about Frazier and Cozart is they are not bad, but not good, just bleh... But they are cheap.
    They aren't bad but the reds would have to find a spot to plug in a guy that can pick up more of the offensive slack and they are kinda the odd men out IMO.
    Last edited by Old school 1983; 08-24-2013 at 03:01 PM.

  5. #94
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    Re: Cubs expected to pursue CHOO..

    So, if these "industry sources" mentioned in the article are Cubs employees, would this be tampering?

  6. #95
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    Re: Cubs expected to pursue CHOO..

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    FWIW, Choo against LHP in 2013 is .190/.326/.218/.544. The OBP looks OK, but it's influenced largely by 11 HBP in 179 PAs. If he reverts to a more normal HBP season, that OBP will fall and make him pretty useless against LHP. Choo will be 32 just 3 months into any new deal. No way I'd go over 3 years on him. Really like the guy, but let somebody else pay for those steep decline years.
    His career OBP against lefty starters is .370. HBP has nothing to do with it.

    He gets on base that much despite no power against lefties so odds are that skill isnt going to decline much. So no matter what his average or slugging is, no manager in his right mind would think of platooning that player. 370 OBP from teams best base runner is extremely valuable no matter what other numbers are.

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    remdog (08-24-2013)

  8. #96
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    Re: Cubs expected to pursue CHOO..

    As an outside observer I think the reds HAVE to resign choo. Hamilton will not be ready next year (many pundits are doubting he will ever be ready) and if choo leaves there are only 2 starters that are locks to OPS+ over 100. Jay and Votto. The reds pitching is going to be good enough to keep them above .500 but you need more production from your lineup to challenge for your division.

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  10. #97
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Cubs expected to pursue CHOO..

    Quote Originally Posted by RadfordVA View Post
    His career OBP against lefty starters is .370. HBP has nothing to do with it.

    He gets on base that much despite no power against lefties so odds are that skill isnt going to decline much. So no matter what his average or slugging is, no manager in his right mind would think of platooning that player. 370 OBP from teams best base runner is extremely valuable no matter what other numbers are.
    His OBP against LHP this year is .326 and the 11 HBPs have everything to do with it being above .300. I'm not really a career stats guy. I think they are not indicative of a guy's current ability. My guess is that Lefty's have figured out what they need to do to get Choo out and probably didn't have all that knowledge early in his career. Being from Korea the effect is even more skewed early in his career there weren't even guys who had faced him in the minor leagues and I'd wager that the career stats are skewed as a result. I weight this year's performance about a 1000% more than something that may have happened in previous seasons. Choo will turn 32 next season and I don't expect this type of trend to improve. If the Reds sign him to a big deal, they'll be getting a player entering his decline phase who will become less and less useful against LHP. I'd love to have him back for a year or two, longer if the deal is reasonable, but if he's going to cost $15 Million per season, I just don't think it's the right place to put that kind of money. I'd rather spend it on Latos and Bailey. Now, if they could go 3 years, $30 Million, I'd be all for it, but I think it will take more per year and more years to sign him.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  11. #98
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    Re: Cubs expected to pursue CHOO..

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    His OBP against LHP this year is .326 and the 11 HBPs have everything to do with it being above .300. I'm not really a career stats guy. I think they are not indicative of a guy's current ability. My guess is that Lefty's have figured out what they need to do to get Choo out and probably didn't have all that knowledge early in his career. Being from Korea the effect is even more skewed early in his career there weren't even guys who had faced him in the minor leagues and I'd wager that the career stats are skewed as a result. I weight this year's performance about a 1000% more than something that may have happened in previous seasons. Choo will turn 32 next season and I don't expect this type of trend to improve. If the Reds sign him to a big deal, they'll be getting a player entering his decline phase who will become less and less useful against LHP. I'd love to have him back for a year or two, longer if the deal is reasonable, but if he's going to cost $15 Million per season, I just don't think it's the right place to put that kind of money. I'd rather spend it on Latos and Bailey. Now, if they could go 3 years, $30 Million, I'd be all for it, but I think it will take more per year and more years to sign him.
    Choo vs LHP in 2013: 179 PAs => A good indicator?

  12. #99
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Cubs expected to pursue CHOO..

    Quote Originally Posted by junkhead View Post
    Choo vs LHP in 2013: 179 PAs => A good indicator?
    His OPS against LHP was terrible least year as well. I think it's a good indicator.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  13. #100
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    Re: Cubs expected to pursue CHOO..

    Off the top of my head there will be at least 5 big market teams pursuing Choo this offseason. He will likely get 4-5 yrs at a price too rich for our blood. I just dont see it happening.

  14. #101
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    Re: Cubs expected to pursue CHOO..

    Quote Originally Posted by Mitri View Post
    Off the top of my head there will be at least 5 big market teams pursuing Choo this offseason. He will likely get 4-5 yrs at a price too rich for our blood. I just dont see it happening.
    Agree, though I don't see why he'd settle for less than 6 years.

  15. #102
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    Re: Cubs expected to pursue CHOO..

    I shudder to think of this offense next season without Choo in the leadoff position - and what we'll see in the #1 and #2 slots with the lack of options and the current regime still at the helm. I'd consider Choo a must sign, although I don't think there is any way the Reds will be in a position to resign him given the fixed payroll and arb cases going into 2014 and beyond.

    The Bailey situation is the one that will determine if the Reds are perennial playoff contenders going forward. He must be traded for some offense assuming the Reds can't sign him long term in the offseason.

  16. #103
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    Re: Cubs expected to pursue CHOO..

    Quote Originally Posted by oregonred View Post
    I shudder to think of this offense next season without Choo in the leadoff position - and what we'll see in the #1 and #2 slots with the lack of options and the current regime still at the helm. I'd consider Choo a must sign, although I don't think there is any way the Reds will be in a position to resign him given the fixed payroll and arb cases going into 2014 and beyond.

    The Bailey situation is the one that will determine if the Reds are perennial playoff contenders going forward. He must be traded for some offense assuming the Reds can't sign him long term in the offseason.
    We were looking for a leadoff hitter when we found Choo. I think the cost of Choo far outweighs his benefits. Unless his market turns out to be less than projected, I'd simply look elsewhere.
    Can't win with 'em

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    HokieRed (08-26-2013), Revering4Blue (08-26-2013)

  18. #104
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    Re: Cubs expected to pursue CHOO..

    Quote Originally Posted by Salukifan2 View Post
    Hamilton will not be ready next year (many pundits are doubting he will ever be ready) .
    Who are these "many pundits" you're referring to, and what are their credentials?

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    Big Klu (08-28-2013), RedTeamGo! (08-26-2013)

  20. #105
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    Re: Cubs expected to pursue CHOO..

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    FWIW, Choo against LHP in 2013 is .190/.326/.218/.544. The OBP looks OK, but it's influenced largely by 11 HBP in 179 PAs. If he reverts to a more normal HBP season, that OBP will fall and make him pretty useless against LHP. Choo will be 32 just 3 months into any new deal. No way I'd go over 3 years on him. Really like the guy, but let somebody else pay for those steep decline years.
    Choo for his career is .240/.336/.336/.672...career BABIP vs LHP is .319, current season is .257. Isn't it safe to say that even if he loses those HBP, his other stats normalize and he gets back to being acceptable against LHP?

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    RadfordVA (08-26-2013)


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