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Thread: "Star Wars Episode 1: What Went Wrong"

  1. #16
    Titanic Struggles Caveat Emperor's Avatar
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    Re: "Star Wars Episode 1: What Went Wrong"

    Episode 1's main problem (beyond the awful dialogue, shaky pacing, and generally low-stakes plot) is that it's completely unnecessary in the greater storyline.

    The movie introduces 3 "major" characters who had, before this film, had never been referenced in the original trilogy -- Qui Gon Jinn, Darth Maul, and Jar Jar Binks -- and then proceeds to kill off two of them. The third, Jar Jar, becomes a background character for the remainder of the trilogy.

    They could just as easily have started the trilogy with Episode 2 and have the entire thing make just as much sense. Doing that actually makes MORE sense, because it starts Anakin out (for the viewers) at roughly the same age you meet Luke in "A New Hope" -- then the two trilogies become mirrors of one another with the contrast of choices between Anakin Skywalker (turning to the Dark Side) and Luke Skywalker (resisting the temptation and remaining true) that ultimately leads to both their salvations.

    You also don't have to go through mental gymnastics to make the Anakin / Padme romance make sense chronologically, and you immediately start with real action as opposed to a low-stakes conflict about a trade dispute and blockade around an otherwise unimportant planet. It also ties in better with the dialogue in the original trilogy (Obi Wan's statement about Anakin being a great star pilot when he met him -- really, a 7 year old kid? Come on.).

    The other main problem is that they did just a terrible job of explaining why Anakin fell. The whole character arc seems tremendously unsatisfying because, again, the spend an entire movie with him as a useless kid where you never get a sense of who/what he is or what makes him tick. If you start with Episode 2, you can do an entire movie of him being a generally affable dude and buddies with Obi Wan before doing something to him that starts the process of his turning.
    Last edited by Caveat Emperor; 08-25-2013 at 02:55 PM.
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  4. #17
    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
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    Re: "Star Wars Episode 1: What Went Wrong"

    http://www.slashfilm.com/topher-grac...5minute-movie/

    This is kind of similar to what you are saying caveat.

    Topher Grace did a cut of all three films into 1 85 minute version and cut out all of phantom menace except for the final scene where Qui Gon dies. After thinking about it I really do think that would have been a perfect start to episode 1. No need to even show Anakin, just have Qui Gon die and ask for Obi Wan to train him. I also like how the cut ends with Darth's helmet being lowered on.

  5. #18
    Potential Lunch Winner Dom Heffner's Avatar
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    Re: "Star Wars Episode 1: What Went Wrong"

    These are amongst the worst films ever made. Horrible.

  6. #19
    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
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    Re: "Star Wars Episode 1: What Went Wrong"

    Quote Originally Posted by Dom Heffner View Post
    These are amongst the worst films ever made. Horrible.
    I agree with your statement. Until recently I just considered these movies a massive disappointment and really bad, but for some reason the last few days I have been looking up a lot of videos on youtube concerning these movies and have watched a few videos (1-2 hour videos haha) by fans really breaking down what is wrong with these "films" and it is kind of crazy how much went wrong. So much went wrong it almost seems like Lucas did it on purpose.

    Dom: Did you watch the video I posted in the OP? Rick McCollum's face after the screening is the best/worst part for me. He just looks so horrified at what they created. The sad part is he and GL still made millions upon millions of dollars off of these stinkers.

  7. #20
    Titanic Struggles Caveat Emperor's Avatar
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    Re: "Star Wars Episode 1: What Went Wrong"

    Quote Originally Posted by Dom Heffner View Post
    These are amongst the worst films ever made. Horrible.
    They aren't good by any stretch of the imagination and range from bad (1) to watchably mediocre (3).

    But, worst movies ever made? Not even close. Especially in the sci-fi genre, it gets a lot worse than these three.
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  8. #21
    Member improbus's Avatar
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    Re: "Star Wars Episode 1: What Went Wrong"

    Quote Originally Posted by Dom Heffner View Post
    These are amongst the worst films ever made. Horrible.
    When you combine the weight of the previous movies, the budgets involved, and the level of excitement for their release, yes, I would agree. Somehow George Lucas submarined a franchise that even Ewoks couldn't bring down.
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  9. #22
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    Re: "Star Wars Episode 1: What Went Wrong"

    I guess I won't link to them, because they are really not family/Reds Zone friendly, but I highly recommend the Red Letter Media reviews of the prequels by Plinkett.

    Each one is an hour+ and is basically a thorough and devastating take down of Lucas and each movie. He actually uses most of the footage in the video in the OP.

    They are on You Tube.

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  11. #23
    Member NebraskaRed's Avatar
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    Re: "Star Wars Episode 1: What Went Wrong"

    Revenge of the Sith isn't perfect by any means (with the exception of Empire, none of them are), but it's a good movie. Better than Return of the Jedi.

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  13. #24
    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
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    Re: "Star Wars Episode 1: What Went Wrong"

    Quote Originally Posted by top6 View Post
    I guess I won't link to them, because they are really not family/Reds Zone friendly, but I highly recommend the Red Letter Media reviews of the prequels by Plinkett.

    Each one is an hour+ and is basically a thorough and devastating take down of Lucas and each movie. He actually uses most of the footage in the video in the OP.

    They are on You Tube.
    I have watched his review of episode 1 and am about halfway through episode 2. they are hilarious and he hits the nail right on the head.

  14. #25
    Potential Lunch Winner Dom Heffner's Avatar
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    Re: "Star Wars Episode 1: What Went Wrong"

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    They aren't good by any stretch of the imagination and range from bad (1) to watchably mediocre (3).

    But, worst movies ever made? Not even close. Especially in the sci-fi genre, it gets a lot worse than these three.
    What Improbus said.

    They aren't Plan 9 From Outer Space, but given their context, they are up there.

    I remember sitting there watching Episode I and thinking that I hadn't seen something that was as big a commercial release being that terrible.

    From Lucas' dialogue- which is laugh out bad- to those annoying screen slides he does when the action changes locale....it's nearly unwatchable.

    I know we all love movies and we can all say we know bad when I see it....but these are atrocious at a level rarely seen for major studio releases.

  15. #26
    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
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    Re: "Star Wars Episode 1: What Went Wrong"

    Quote Originally Posted by Dom Heffner View Post
    What Improbus said.

    They aren't Plan 9 From Outer Space, but given their context, they are up there.

    I remember sitting there watching Episode I and thinking that I hadn't seen something that was as big a commercial release being that terrible.

    From Lucas' dialogue- which is laugh out bad- to those annoying screen slides he does when the action changes locale....it's nearly unwatchable.

    I know we all love movies and we can all say we know bad when I see it....but these are atrocious at a level rarely seen for major studio releases.
    The reason it is so rare is because studios do not like giving a lot of creative control to the director. In this case Lucas had complete control including the script, direction, and casting. Not only are the movies themselves terrible, this has resulted in Hollywood being even more prudish about giving creative control to directors resulting in an even more commercial environment in film making.

    This is basically the only example I can think of where the studio execs stepping in and having someone else write the script or taken Lucas completely away from casting would have made such a huge difference.
    Last edited by RedTeamGo!; 08-28-2013 at 03:53 PM.

  16. #27
    Potential Lunch Winner Dom Heffner's Avatar
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    Re: "Star Wars Episode 1: What Went Wrong"

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo! View Post
    The reason it is so rare is because studios do not like giving a lot of creative control to the director. In this case Lucas had complete control including the script, direction, and casting. Not only are the movies themselves terrible, this has resulted in Hollywood being even more prudish about giving creative control to directors resulting in an even more commercial environment in film making.
    Good post.

    The first three were pretty good movies because they were set after a bunch of events had already taken place unseen. That backstory gave the story an epic feel.

    To go back and show the audience what we already knew and to do it with better technology...I mean, it made no sense.

  17. #28
    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
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    Re: "Star Wars Episode 1: What Went Wrong"

    Quote Originally Posted by Dom Heffner View Post
    Good post.

    The first three were pretty good movies because they were set after a bunch of events had already taken place unseen. That backstory gave the story an epic feel.

    To go back and show the audience what we already knew and to do it with better technology...I mean, it made no sense.
    Absolutely correct. Really, if you go back through the history of fantasy and sci fi epics they very commonly begin shortly after a huge event or war has taken place.

  18. #29
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    Re: "Star Wars Episode 1: What Went Wrong"

    I defend Revenge of the Sith but once you ask these questions I quit:

    1. How did the Sith come about and why ?

    2. Why does the Senate break into applause when Palpatine proclaims an Empire?
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  19. #30
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    Re: "Star Wars Episode 1: What Went Wrong"

    The politics of the series just makes me confused. It seems a jumbled mess which might be the point but it just gets wierd- especially with the Jedi and stormtroopers are fighting together but later they are not. Why is it there is a droid army in the prequels that seem more advanced technologically than anything in the original 3? Then there is that robotic general that coughs (ep 2?) that is clearly more advanced tech than anything later on. Did the clone wars set back the tech world?
    Last edited by klw; 08-29-2013 at 12:41 PM.


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