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Thread: Let's put the walk issue to rest

  1. #1
    OlafTheBlack Dan's Avatar
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    Let's put the walk issue to rest

    This is from baseball-reference.com and sorted by number of walks. The teams that are bolded are the teams that currently have above .500 records. Is it any coincidence that the teams that are winning are also walking the most?

    Note: this is only for this year. I haven't looked at any other year yet.

    Code:
    Tm       R/G    G    PA    AB    R  RBI   BB    SO  OBP  SLG  OPS OPS+
    CIN     4.31  128  4947  4325  552  525  457  1000 .325 .389 .714   92
    ATL     4.45  127  4861  4308  565  538  434  1086 .325 .410 .735   99
    NYM     4.03  125  4861  4355  504  482  407  1073 .309 .377 .686   93
    ARI     4.26  126  4910  4411  537  505  391   906 .321 .394 .715   96
    LAD     4.09  127  4839  4316  519  496  379   886 .331 .396 .726  104
    STL     4.88  127  4875  4374  620  592  374   868 .334 .408 .742  106
    PIT     3.94  127  4846  4327  500  476  373  1085 .313 .392 .705   99
    LgAvg   4.04  127  4820  4330  513  487  368   960 .315 .390 .705   94
    SDP     3.84  127  4798  4320  488  455  361  1005 .309 .381 .690   98
    WSN     3.83  127  4725  4253  487  458  359   956 .307 .390 .697   91
    SFG     3.80  127  4832  4354  483  454  355   819 .316 .375 .692  101
    COL     4.34  129  4888  4425  560  534  354   960 .321 .417 .739   91
    CHC     3.91  127  4787  4340  496  473  346   963 .301 .399 .700   91
    MIA     3.23  126  4675  4243  407  383  318   921 .291 .333 .624   71
    PHI     3.75  127  4697  4275  476  450  307   935 .303 .390 .694   90
    MIL     3.95  127  4760  4324  502  479  305   937 .310 .403 .712   93
    The one constant through all the years, Ray, has been baseball. America has rolled by like an army of steamrollers. It has been erased like a blackboard, rebuilt and erased again. But baseball has marked the time. -- Terrance Mann (Field of Dreams)

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  4. #2
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    Re: Let's put the walk issue to rest

    Are there many RZ'ers that include themselves in the "JV is not paid to walk" club?

    I'm certainly more Seamhead than Stathead and I'm all for JV doing exactly what he's doing.
    Everything that can be counted does not necessarily count; everything that counts cannot necessarily be counted.

    All the dishes rattle in the cupboards when the elephants arrive

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  6. #3
    Newbie Rock of Truth's Avatar
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    Re: Let's put the walk issue to rest

    Chicken and egg scenario to me. Do these teams get a bunch of walks and therefore score more runs and win alot?

    Or

    Do these winning teams already have really good hitters in place. Opposing pitchers are not willing to challenge hitters and therefore throw more walks?

    Either way, it beats getting out.

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    Old school 1983 (08-23-2013)

  8. #4
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    Re: Let's put the walk issue to rest

    You certainly have my attention with that table. Thanks for posting.

  9. #5
    Flash the leather! _Sir_Charles_'s Avatar
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    Re: Let's put the walk issue to rest

    Fair argument Dan. But how do you explain the Mets? Heck, for that matter, how do you explain the Mets to Carp's son?
    Chapman to the rotation!!!! Do it already!!!!

  10. #6
    No half measures, Walter RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: Let's put the walk issue to rest

    Quote Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_ View Post
    Fair argument Dan. But how do you explain the Mets? Heck, for that matter, how do you explain the Mets to Carp's son?
    How to explain the Mets is a philosophically dense quandry that we probably can't approach on a mere message board.

    How to explain the Mets on this chart is pretty easy -- statistical outlier.

  11. #7
    Churlish Johnny Footstool's Avatar
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    Re: Let's put the walk issue to rest

    Quote Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_ View Post
    Fair argument Dan. But how do you explain the Mets? Heck, for that matter, how do you explain the Mets to Carp's son?
    outlier
    "I prefer books and movies where the conflict isn't of the extreme cannibal apocalypse variety I guess." Redsfaithful

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  13. #8
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Let's put the walk issue to rest

    And the Mets have no power at all. Only two teams are worse in the SLG department than they are.

  14. #9
    Flash the leather! _Sir_Charles_'s Avatar
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    Re: Let's put the walk issue to rest

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool View Post
    outlier
    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    How to explain the Mets is a philosophically dense quandry that we probably can't approach on a mere message board.

    How to explain the Mets on this chart is pretty easy -- statistical outlier.
    You guys are no fun. :O) I was kidding obviously.
    Chapman to the rotation!!!! Do it already!!!!

  15. #10
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    Re: Let's put the walk issue to rest

    Well, you can argue that the walk totals of the Reds, Braves, Cards, Dodgers, Pirates and DBacks correlate to wins.

    I'd argue that the pitching numbers of those teams provide a far more significant correlation. All those teams pitch pretty well.

    Walks should correlate to higher OBP which should help offensive production, that's as far as I would take this.

  16. #11
    No half measures, Walter RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: Let's put the walk issue to rest

    Quote Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_ View Post
    You guys are no fun. :O) I was kidding obviously.
    Sorry. I am notoriously bad at picking up on tone these days.

  17. #12
    Flash the leather! _Sir_Charles_'s Avatar
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    Re: Let's put the walk issue to rest

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    Sorry. I am notoriously bad at picking up on tone these days.
    NP. I wasn't bothered by it at all. Takes a TON to ruffle my feathers. I've just learned over the years to not let things bother me...what's the point?
    Chapman to the rotation!!!! Do it already!!!!

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  19. #13
    Member RadfordVA's Avatar
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    Re: Let's put the walk issue to rest

    Should be sorted by obp for a better point. Good offenses get more at bats so they have more chances at raw number of walks.

    Actually walk pct as obp would include hits.

  20. #14
    Member klw's Avatar
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    Re: Let's put the walk issue to rest

    Quote Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_ View Post
    Fair argument Dan. But how do you explain the Mets? Heck, for that matter, how do you explain the Mets to Carp's son?
    Mets are 7th in runs scored, 7th in team ERA but 9th in Runs allowed due to giving up an unearned run nearly every 2 games on average and 8th overall in Winning percentage. Seems to all fit to me.

  21. #15
    Member klw's Avatar
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    Re: Let's put the walk issue to rest

    The other way to look at things is whether walks haunt the pitcher:
    http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/team/_/...ks/order/false
    Code:
    RK	TEAM  	        GP	W	L	ERA	SV	CG	SHO	IP	QS	ER	R	BB	SO	BAA
    1	Atlanta	        127	77	50	3.20	42	1	10	1141.2	80	406	436	326	975	.240
    2	Washington	127	63	64	3.72	36	4	7	1137.2	70	470	511	327	980	.250
    3	Cincinnati	128	73	55	3.35	37	4	13	1160.1	77	432	462	341	1056	.235
    4	NY Mets	        125	58	67	3.69	30	2	7	1147.1	71	471	530	351	933	.257
    5	St. Louis	127	74	53	3.50	35	6	11	1137.1	69	442	474	359	980	.250
    6	LA Dodgers	127	75	52	3.24	38	6	17	1140.0	72	410	460	360	990	.244
    7	Milwaukee	127	55	72	3.94	30	2	11	1132.0	59	495	559	370	882	.257
    8	Philadelphia	127	57	70	4.24	23	5	3	1125.0	74	530	579	373	904	.265
    9	Arizona	        126	65	61	3.79	32	4	7	1160.1	68	488	524	376	971	.254
    10	Colorado	129	59	70	4.23	27	1	4	1140.1	54	536	577	387	834	.272
    11	Miami	        126	48	78	3.76	29	1	7	1141.1	66	477	517	409	921	.254
    12	Pittsburgh	127	75	52	3.18	42	3	14	1161.2	63	410	445	413	991	.234
    13	San Diego	127	57	70	4.15	30	2	3	1138.2	65	525	573	418	869	.260
    14	San Francisco	127	56	71	4.20	31	1	10	1136.0	59	530	571	418	1014	.251
    15	Chicago Cubs	127	54	73	4.00	30	3	5	1139.2	74	507	543	424	924	.246
    Code:
    RK	TEAM	         GP	W	L	ERA	SV	CG	SHO	IP	QS	ER	R	BB	SO	BAA
    1	Pittsburgh	127	75	52	3.18	42	3	14	1161.2	63	410	445	413	991	.234
    2	Atlanta	        127	77	50	3.20	42	1	10	1141.2	80	406	436	326	975	.240
    3	LA Dodgers	127	75	52	3.24	38	6	17	1140.0	72	410	460	360	990	.244
    4	Cincinnati	128	73	55	3.35	37	4	13	1160.1	77	432	462	341	1056	.235
    5	St. Louis	127	74	53	3.50	35	6	11	1137.1	69	442	474	359	980	.250
    6	NY Mets	        125	58	67	3.69	30	2	7	1147.1	71	471	530	351	933	.257
    7	Washington	127	63	64	3.72	36	4	7	1137.2	70	470	511	327	980	.250
    8	Miami	        126	48	78	3.76	29	1	7	1141.1	66	477	517	409	921	.254
    9	Arizona	        126	65	61	3.79	32	4	7	1160.1	68	488	524	376	971	.254
    10	Milwaukee	127	55	72	3.94	30	2	11	1132.0	59	495	559	370	882	.257
    11	Chicago Cubs	127	54	73	4.00	30	3	5	1139.2	74	507	543	424	924	.246
    12	San Diego	127	57	70	4.15	30	2	3	1138.2	65	525	573	418	869	.260
    13	San Francisco	127	56	71	4.20	31	1	10	1136.0	59	530	571	418	1014	.251
    14	Colorado	129	59	70	4.23	27	1	4	1140.1	54	536	577	387	834	.272
    15	Philadelphia	127	57	70	4.24	23	5	3	1125.0	74	530	579	373	904	.265
    Code:
    RK	TEAM	         GP	W	L	ERA	SV	CG	SHO	IP	QS	ER	R	BB	SO	BAA
    1	Cincinnati	128	73	55	3.35	37	4	13	1160.1	77	432	462	341	1056	.235
    2	San Francisco	127	56	71	4.20	31	1	10	1136.0	59	530	571	418	1014	.251
    3	Pittsburgh	127	75	52	3.18	42	3	14	1161.2	63	410	445	413	991	.234
    4	LA Dodgers	127	75	52	3.24	38	6	17	1140.0	72	410	460	360	990	.244
    5	Washington	127	63	64	3.72	36	4	7	1137.2	70	470	511	327	980	.250
    6	St. Louis	127	74	53	3.50	35	6	11	1137.1	69	442	474	359	980	.250
    7	Atlanta	        127	77	50	3.20	42	1	10	1141.2	80	406	436	326	975	.240
    8	Arizona	        126	65	61	3.79	32	4	7	1160.1	68	488	524	376	971	.254
    9	NY Mets	        125	58	67	3.69	30	2	7	1147.1	71	471	530	351	933	.257
    10	Chicago Cubs	127	54	73	4.00	30	3	5	1139.2	74	507	543	424	924	.246
    11	Miami	        126	48	78	3.76	29	1	7	1141.1	66	477	517	409	921	.254
    12	Philadelphia	127	57	70	4.24	23	5	3	1125.0	74	530	579	373	904	.265
    13	Milwaukee	127	55	72	3.94	30	2	11	1132.0	59	495	559	370	882	.257
    14	San Diego	127	57	70	4.15	30	2	3	1138.2	65	525	573	418	869	.260
    15	Colorado	129	59	70	4.23	27	1	4	1140.1	54	536	577	387	834	.272
    Code:
    RK	TEAM 	        BK	WP	SB	CS	CS%	WHIP	K/BB	K/9	P/PA	RS	ERC%	DIP%
    1	Cincinnati	4	40	52	25	32.00	1.17	3.10	8.19	3.83	0.12	96.00	110.00
    2	Atlanta	        3	42	62	28	31.00	1.18	2.99	7.69	3.80	0.10	99.00	109.00
    3	Pittsburgh	6	55	74	36	33.00	1.22	2.40	7.68	3.77	0.09	101.00	114.00
    4	LA Dodgers	1	44	41	34	45.00	1.23	2.75	7.82	3.85	0.11	103.00	110.00
    5	Washington	6	32	81	14	15.00	1.24	3.00	7.75	3.86	0.11	96.00	101.00
    6	St. Louis	1	22	29	18	38.00	1.26	2.73	7.75	3.80	0.12	99.00	100.00
    7	NY Mets	        2	31	58	21	27.00	1.28	2.66	7.32	3.80	0.13	101.00	102.00
    8	Arizona	        2	69	35	17	33.00	1.29	2.58	7.53	3.76	0.12	102.00	105.00
    9	Chicago Cubs	4	49	84	34	29.00	1.29	2.18	7.30	3.84	0.11	93.00	101.00
    10	Milwaukee	1	43	81	24	23.00	1.31	2.38	7.01	3.82	0.09	101.00	106.00
    11	Miami	        2	43	75	35	32.00	1.32	2.25	7.26	3.77	0.11	99.00	99.00
    12	San Francisco	4	50	80	29	27.00	1.33	2.43	8.03	3.86	0.11	93.00	91.00
    13	San Diego	1	45	89	31	26.00	1.35	2.08	6.87	3.84	0.10	97.00	100.00
    14	Philadelphia	3	36	79	30	28.00	1.35	2.42	7.23	3.79	0.13	98.00	95.00
    15	Colorado	13	53	75	30	29.00	1.39	2.16	6.58	3.79	0.11	99.00	93.00
    Quick eval shows Pittsburgh is the true outlier and really seems to somehow escape all the walks it surrenders.

    Seems like they get around it with the low slugging percentage and not giving up hits, especially doubles and homers. They have only surrendered 18 fewer hits than the Reds but have given up 84 fewer extra base hits.

    Code:
    RK	TEAM	         OBP	SLG	OPS	BLSV	SVO	SV%	HBP	IBB	H	2B	3B	HR	TB
    1	Pittsburgh	.307	.341	.648	11	53	79.00	57	25	1004	168	17	86	1464
    2	Atlanta	        .300	.369	.669	11	53	79.00	47	29	1024	213	21	98	1573
    3	LA Dodgers	.306	.367	.673	17	55	69.00	31	32	1045	189	15	101	1567
    4	Cincinnati	.296	.380	.677	13	50	74.00	44	23	1022	207	21	127	1652
    5	St. Louis	.314	.368	.682	16	51	69.00	55	23	1071	205	21	86	1576
    6	Washington	.307	.388	.695	16	52	69.00	41	14	1084	212	14	121	1687
    7	NY Mets	        .315	.390	.705	16	46	65.00	39	34	1122	214	15	113	1705
    8	Miami	        .322	.390	.711	12	41	71.00	36	48	1094	216	40	95	1675
    9	Chicago Cubs	.318	.395	.713	24	54	56.00	43	30	1050	242	20	119	1689
    10	San Francisco	.321	.396	.717	10	41	76.00	42	53	1088	222	20	121	1713
    11	Milwaukee	.318	.401	.719	16	46	65.00	29	23	1113	176	13	141	1738
    12	Arizona	        .318	.407	.725	23	55	58.00	50	30	1116	239	18	133	1790
    13	San Diego	.326	.408	.734	10	40	75.00	26	21	1122	209	30	124	1763
    14	Philadelphia	.328	.419	.748	13	36	64.00	48	23	1150	242	30	122	1818
    15	Colorado	.332	.417	.749	13	40	68.00	30	38	1200	272	23	107	1839
    Last edited by klw; 08-23-2013 at 05:04 PM.

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