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Thread: What Can't Phillips Do Defensively? I'll Answer

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    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
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    What Can't Phillips Do Defensively? I'll Answer

    This video showed up in my in box this morning with the title "What can't Phillips do defensively?"

    http://wapc.mlb.com/play/?topic_id=5...nt_id=29970885


    Well there is a chink in his game and it's really beginning to frustrate me. He is very slow (deliberate) at turning a double play. We've been treated to some wizards at 2B through the yrs at turning a double play and as athletically talented as BP is, he isn't even in their league. The best (as in the quickest) I've ever seen was Ron Oester. Joe Morgan was a close 2nd. Bret Boone wasn't bad either. If I were the Reds brass I'd recognize this weakness and address it by having Joe Morgan work with him. BP's issues on this almost cost them a game this week.

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    No half measures, Walter RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: What Can't Phillips Do Defensively? I'll Answer

    Interesting. You may be on to something. Although I'm not sure whether Phillips is the culprit, the Reds do currently rank last in MLB in double plays per game. In 2007 though, BP led his position in DPs turned, and the Reds ranked 11th overall. So there could be a connection there.

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    Re: What Can't Phillips Do Defensively? I'll Answer

    Reds pitching leads MLB in WHIP and is second in K's. This means there have been a lot fewer DP opportunities for the Reds defensively.

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    Re: What Can't Phillips Do Defensively? I'll Answer

    When your pitchers lead the league in strike outs, it seems logically they would be last in DP's. Plus the Red's pitchers give up fewer base runners.

    This would be similar to saying that the pitching staff with the least amount of wins must be the league's worse.

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    No half measures, Walter RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: What Can't Phillips Do Defensively? I'll Answer

    Okay, I stand corrected. What was the Reds rank in WHIP and K's in 2007 when BP led the league?

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    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
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    Re: What Can't Phillips Do Defensively? I'll Answer

    I don't know that we can look at stats and determine whether BP is slow at turning the DP. There are much more influential foctors than his pivot at the bag. Whether a ground ball is hit to begin with, just to name one.

    I look at it as a scout would: my eyeballs. If you're scouting a high school kid and you need to report on his strengths and weaknesses at 2B, are you going to ask for stats on how many DPs they turned?

    Ron Oester was so fluid you barely saw the ball touch the glove. In BP's case, he catches the ball, takes a step (probably because he's worried about getting taken out on the play) and then aims it towards 1B. He's not fluid at all. How many DPs a yr that costs us is up for debate but it did almost cost us Wednesday's game

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    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
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    Re: What Can't Phillips Do Defensively? I'll Answer

    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    When your pitchers lead the league in strike outs, it seems logically they would be last in DP's. Plus the Red's pitchers give up fewer base runners.

    This would be similar to saying that the pitching staff with the least amount of wins must be the league's worse.
    Exactly. I think looking at team stats to determine BP's double play prowess is flawed for the reason you just explained

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    No half measures, Walter RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: What Can't Phillips Do Defensively? I'll Answer

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    Exactly. I think looking at team stats to determine BP's double play prowess is flawed for the reason you just explained
    I agree. Point granted.

    But where would we look then? We'd have to measure the time it takes him to convert plays or something, and then establish some sort of baseline league-wide for this to be a real "thing", don't you think?

    FWIW, I love watching BP turn the DP. He doesn't look slow to me at all. Is my eye test worse than yours?

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    Re: What Can't Phillips Do Defensively? I'll Answer

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    I agree. Point granted.

    But where would we look then? We'd have to measure the time it takes him to convert plays or something, and then establish some sort of baseline league-wide for this to be a real "thing", don't you think?

    FWIW, I love watching BP turn the DP. He doesn't look slow to me at all. Is my eye test worse than yours?
    I suppose you could time the pivot but I prefer to just see it for myself. Compare videos of Ron Oester or Ryne Sandberg turning a DP and I don't think you'll need a stopwatch. If I were coaching BP, that's where I would start...in the video room. I wouldn't bother with stopwatches

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    No half measures, Walter RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: What Can't Phillips Do Defensively? I'll Answer

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    I suppose you could time the pivot but I prefer to just see it for myself. Compare videos of Ron Oester or Ryne Sandberg turning a DP and I don't think you'll need a stopwatch. If I were coaching BP, that's where I would start...in the video room. I wouldn't bother with stopwatches
    But just because something looks "slick" doesn't mean it is actually more efficient, right? Even if BP looks a little less smooth than those guys, it doesn't mean he's less effective at turning it. You've got to have something more than the eye test to merit a coaching intervention. There's got to be some kind of results-based problem you are seeing.

    And... I watch the Reds a lot, and regularly marvel at how fast he turns the DP. So there's that.

    I think if I were coaching BP I'd leave his D alone and try to get him to walk more. But that's just me.

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    Re: What Can't Phillips Do Defensively? I'll Answer

    While I'm very critical of his bat there is absolutely nothing BP can't do in the field. In my 34 years I've never seen a better defensive 2B.

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    Re: What Can't Phillips Do Defensively? I'll Answer

    Quote Originally Posted by UC_Ken View Post
    While I'm very critical of his bat there is absolutely nothing BP can't do in the field. In my 34 years I've never seen a better defensive 2B.
    His issues at turning a DP is what keeps me from making that statement

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    Re: What Can't Phillips Do Defensively? I'll Answer

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    I think if I were coaching BP I'd leave his D alone and try to get him to walk more. But that's just me.
    I am of the opinion that taking more walks is just not realistic for him but his defensive skills tell me that he can learn the art of turning a DP.

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    Re: What Can't Phillips Do Defensively? I'll Answer

    3 of those 4 highlights were of the same play and in it he shows the art of avoiding injury but it's a poor example of a quick pivot. In it he takes a step, jumps high enough to avoid being taken out and then he releases the ball as he's coming back down to earth. That all takes time. I don't blame him for taking care of himself physically; I support that. It's just the nature of the play that doesn't lend itself to being a good example. I'm puzzled why you thought that play out to be linked 3 times


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