Turn Off Ads?
Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 31 to 45 of 45

Thread: Not playing Ludwick?

  1. #31
    Member cumberlandreds's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Sterling VA
    Posts
    9,236

    Re: Not playing Ludwick?

    Ludwick back in there tonight. Happy?


    I saw Beltran is out tonight. I wonder if Cardinalzone is upset.
    Reds Fan Since 1971

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #32

    Re: Not playing Ludwick?

    Quote Originally Posted by cumberlandreds View Post
    Ludwick back in there tonight. Happy?


    I saw Beltran is out tonight. I wonder if Cardinalzone is upset.
    Tards manager is a complete idiot.
    HUBBA A man who knows everything,just can't remember it all at one time.

  4. #33
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    14,772

    Re: Not playing Ludwick?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus View Post
    I've been a huge DeJesus fan for several years. That said, he's no longer a clear upgrade over what the Reds already have. His wOBA is only 10 points higher than Xavier Paul. That's really not worth the money the Reds would be on the hook for next season.
    Except:

    1. Next year is an option
    2. When Choo leaves, Dejesus would be the clear guy to lead-off and play CF against RHP if the Reds are inclined to go that route.
    3. Not sure about WOBA, but Paul is a part timer and Dejesus a full-timer. Rate Stats can be misleading too when match-ups are used to the part-timer's advantage and to hide a guy so he isn't exposed as the Reds have with Paul. No way Paul is a better option than Dejesus without even considering the huge defensive difference.

    For me, Dejesus is only a slightly above average player, but I'd deal a hundred Xavier Paul's for one of him.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  5. #34
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Atlanta, Ga.
    Posts
    10,565

    Re: Not playing Ludwick?

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    Except:

    1. Next year is an option
    2. When Choo leaves, Dejesus would be the clear guy to lead-off and play CF against RHP if the Reds are inclined to go that route.
    3. Not sure about WOBA, but Paul is a part timer and Dejesus a full-timer. Rate Stats can be misleading too when match-ups are used to the part-timer's advantage and to hide a guy so he isn't exposed as the Reds have with Paul. No way Paul is a better option than Dejesus without even considering the huge defensive difference.

    For me, Dejesus is only a slightly above average player, but I'd deal a hundred Xavier Paul's for one of him.

    DeJesus absolutely is not a full time player this year. Far, far from it. He only has 49 plate appearances all season against LHP. He's been a platoon guy for pretty much the whole year.

    Paul has 90% of his PAs against RHP this year. DeJesus has 85% of his against RHP. They've been playing against roughly the same ratio in platoon situations except Paul has shared some of the PAs against RH starters with Heisey and Robinson.

    Paul may not be a "better" option than DeJesus, but he's most certainly not much (if any) worse.
    Last edited by Brutus; 08-26-2013 at 10:22 PM.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  6. #35
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    14,772

    Re: Not playing Ludwick?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus View Post
    DeJesus absolutely is not a full time player this year. Far, far from it. He only has 49 plate appearances all season against LHP. He's been a platoon guy for pretty much the whole year.

    Paul has 90% of his PAs against RHP this year. DeJesus has 85% of his against RHP. They've been playing against roughly the same ratio in platoon situations except Paul has shared some of the PAs against RH starters with Heisey and Robinson.

    Paul may not be a "better" option than DeJesus, but he's most certainly not much (if any) worse.
    Except Paul is so limited that he only plays against certain types of RHP. That's why he's been sharing those starts with Heisey and Robinson. He's not really a good option. He's fine as a PH and should get a start 2 or 3 times per month when the match-up looks good to keep him sharp, but he's not a guy you can build a line-up with. Dejesus could easily be this team's CF against RHP. He wouldn't be as good as Choo, but would stop about 70% of the gap until Hamilton or Ervin is ready to actually play that spot. With Heisey or, heaven forbid, Robinson on hand to platoon it would make next year a much less uncertain venture. For this year, he's better insurance for injury, a better tandem partner for Ludwick who will need a lot of time off all year and adds a player with defensive value to the bench for late game moves. He's about a 1000 times better option than Xavier Paul. Throw out all the match-up influenced rate stats you wish, but Paul is a limited AAAA player who will teeter on DFAville for the rest of his career.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  7. #36
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Atlanta, Ga.
    Posts
    10,565

    Re: Not playing Ludwick?

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    Except Paul is so limited that he only plays against certain types of RHP. That's why he's been sharing those starts with Heisey and Robinson. He's not really a good option. He's fine as a PH and should get a start 2 or 3 times per month when the match-up looks good to keep him sharp, but he's not a guy you can build a line-up with. Dejesus could easily be this team's CF against RHP. He wouldn't be as good as Choo, but would stop about 70% of the gap until Hamilton or Ervin is ready to actually play that spot. With Heisey or, heaven forbid, Robinson on hand to platoon it would make next year a much less uncertain venture. For this year, he's better insurance for injury, a better tandem partner for Ludwick who will need a lot of time off all year and adds a player with defensive value to the bench for late game moves. He's about a 1000 times better option than Xavier Paul. Throw out all the match-up influenced rate stats you wish, but Paul is a limited AAAA player who will teeter on DFAville for the rest of his career.
    What specific "types" is Paul only able to play against, and how do you know this? Has Dusty said he's only capable of hitting against certain right handers or are you just trying to justify why DeJesus was not a full time player like you thought?

    Dusty wasn't sitting Paul because he was only capable of hitting against certain "types." He was sitting Paul because like Dusty does, he was trying to get each of them playing time and he was trying to see if one of them would get hot and win the job on a more permanent basis until Ludwick returned.

    DeJesus only has 334 plate appearances this season on his own and only 28 more against lefties than Paul. With Ludwick having been back to collect 40 plate appearances, that means Dejesus last literally fewer than about 80-90 more times at the plate than Paul in available opportunities. Like I said, they've both played proportionately the exact same amount against left-handers with only 10 points difference on wOBA. I liked DeJesus once upon a time, but his days as a clear upgrade are over.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  8. #37
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    14,772

    Re: Not playing Ludwick?

    Xavier Paul against RHP in 2013 .244/.338/.426/.764 in 201 PA.

    Dejesus against RHP in 2013 .274/.353/.444/.798 in 284 PA.

    Dejesus is passable in CF and above average in the corners. Paul can't play CF, shouldn't play RF and if you close your eyes and hold your nose is passable in LF.

    Dejesus could easily be this team's lead-off hitter against RHP while playing CF in 2014. Paul's fate is as a LH PH with limited positional utility. For the rest of this year, I'd rather have Dejesus in there when Ludwick sits against a RHP 2 or 3 days per week. He is a better hitter, gets on base more often and has a bit more pop and of course there is the defense.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  9. #38
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Atlanta, Ga.
    Posts
    10,565

    Re: Not playing Ludwick?

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    Xavier Paul against RHP in 2013 .244/.338/.426/.764 in 201 PA.

    Dejesus against RHP in 2013 .274/.353/.444/.798 in 284 PA.

    Dejesus is passable in CF and above average in the corners. Paul can't play CF, shouldn't play RF and if you close your eyes and hold your nose is passable in LF.

    Dejesus could easily be this team's lead-off hitter against RHP while playing CF in 2014. Paul's fate is as a LH PH with limited positional utility. For the rest of this year, I'd rather have Dejesus in there when Ludwick sits against a RHP 2 or 3 days per week. He is a better hitter, gets on base more often and has a bit more pop and of course there is the defense.
    As I said at the beginning, I've been a DD fan. I'm not arguing he's not a mild upgrade. But that's all it is... a mild one. I don't believe it's worth the money the Reds would have to pay next season for a then-33-year old DeJesus.

    I'd rather save the $6 million for 30 points of OPS in limited playing time and put those resources elsewhere.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  10. #39
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    913

    Re: Not playing Ludwick?

    Quote Originally Posted by muethibp View Post
    The OP is, to my mind, proof that Dusty is going to be criticized basically no matter what he does.

    First, it makes good sense to sit Ludwick yesterday: he's still recovering, he is still getting into playing shape, it's a day game following a night game, and it's the game before an enormous series against STL. I'd be much more annoyed if he played rather than if he sat.

    As for Frazier, while we haven't seen the results yet, I have no problem trying to jumpstart Frazier's bat by putting him in front of Votto. The logic is certainly sound. I don't think there is a major league manager that would do anything different than Choo first and Votto third (not to say that there aren't arguments for, for example, Votto batting second - I'm just saying that no manager would do it different), and once you have those guys penned in those lineup spots, there just isn't an ideal two-hole hitter on this team.
    How many at bats before the kickstart starts setting in? He is at 70 plate appearances in the 2 hole right now with a batting average below .200, OBP around .260, and OPS just above .600.

    Frazier has been the worst hitter on this team for the past month. I also don't understand the whole idea of "kickstarting a player." It's not like people were pitching around him when he was hitting like *bleep*, and no one is going to suddenly throw him meatballs just because Votto is batting next. If anything, it actually makes things worse for him. Pitchers are more likely to give him their best stuff in order to keep him off base. He wasn't batting 8th before, and no one is scared of his bat be it the 6 or the 2 hole. All it does is give him more at bats, which means more at bats for the guy that is essentially the worst hitter on the team right now.

  11. Likes:

    remdog (08-29-2013), texasdave (08-28-2013)

  12. #40
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Location
    Westerville, OH
    Posts
    10,818

    Re: Not playing Ludwick?

    Nm
    Last edited by Larkin Fan; 08-27-2013 at 10:40 PM.

  13. #41
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    14,772

    Re: Not playing Ludwick?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus View Post
    As I said at the beginning, I've been a DD fan. I'm not arguing he's not a mild upgrade. But that's all it is... a mild one. I don't believe it's worth the money the Reds would have to pay next season for a then-33-year old DeJesus.

    I'd rather save the $6 million for 30 points of OPS in limited playing time and put those resources elsewhere.
    OK. So when Choo leaves, who plays CF next year? The $6 Million for next year to solve CF is the best reason to get him. There isn't a better solution to be had for a lesser cost in Money and Talent. They won't have the money to keep Choo and they won't have the money to bring in a big name replacement. They really don't have the depth to deal for a young up and coming replacement without creating a hole somewhere else. Hamilton doesn't look ready. Guess we're going with Heisey/Robinson. Dejesus is a massive upgrade over Robinson.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  14. Likes:

    remdog (08-29-2013), texasdave (08-28-2013)

  15. #42
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Atlanta, Ga.
    Posts
    10,565

    Re: Not playing Ludwick?

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    OK. So when Choo leaves, who plays CF next year? The $6 Million for next year to solve CF is the best reason to get him. There isn't a better solution to be had for a lesser cost in Money and Talent. They won't have the money to keep Choo and they won't have the money to bring in a big name replacement. They really don't have the depth to deal for a young up and coming replacement without creating a hole somewhere else. Hamilton doesn't look ready. Guess we're going with Heisey/Robinson. Dejesus is a massive upgrade over Robinson.
    I'd rather sink or swim with Hamilton than have DeJesus in there doing an inadequate job at $6 million.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  16. #43
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    14,772

    Re: Not playing Ludwick?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus View Post
    I'd rather sink or swim with Hamilton than have DeJesus in there doing an inadequate job at $6 million.
    .350+ OBP with a near .800 OPS against RHP is inadequate? Defensively, he's not perfect, but he's probably better than Choo or Heisey out there.

    Hamilton's .600something OPS in AAA suggests you're throwing out the baby with the bathwater here. You'd really prefer that? Right now Hamilton looks like a lesser version of Willy T. I can't think of anything I'd less like to see on the field.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  17. #44
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    814

    Re: Not playing Ludwick?

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    .350+ OBP with a near .800 OPS against RHP is inadequate? Defensively, he's not perfect, but he's probably better than Choo or Heisey out there.

    Hamilton's .600something OPS in AAA suggests you're throwing out the baby with the bathwater here. You'd really prefer that? Right now Hamilton looks like a lesser version of Willy T. I can't think of anything I'd less like to see on the field.
    It seems inadequate when compared with .450+ OBP with 1.000+ OPS for Choo.

  18. #45
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    14,772

    Re: Not playing Ludwick?

    Quote Originally Posted by junkhead View Post
    It seems inadequate when compared with .450+ OBP with 1.000+ OPS for Choo.
    Agreed, but Choo is going to cost $10 Million per season more than Dejesus next year and require a commitment for 4 or 5 years. Ain't happenin'!

    I'd love to live in a mansion with minions at my beck and call, but I can't afford that. It doesn't mean that I shouldn't find a decent house that I can live in (Dejesus) instead of just settling for the cardboard box on the street (My projection for Hamilton/Robinson).
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  19. Likes:

    remdog (08-29-2013)


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25