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Thread: 8.26.13 Reds @ Cardinals

  1. #676
    Member Beltway's Avatar
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    Re: 8.26.13 Reds @ Cardinals

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Servo View Post
    I have heard that Jay may be a non-tender candidate.
    Doubtful. Even if the Cardinals resign Beltran and Taveras plays CF (Taveras projects as a corner outfielder), they'll probably keep Jay as a 4th outfielder because Holliday and Beltran need so much rest due to their age/health. I wouldn't be surprised to see the Cards go with a 4-outfielder rotation next season of Holliday/Beltran/Jay/Taveras, where each gets around 120 starts.

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  3. #677
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: 8.26.13 Reds @ Cardinals

    We own some teams, some teams own us. In the Posnanski BRM book, he started out with 1975 Opening Day being all about the Reds beating the Dodgers, who had won the NL West in '74 primarily because of head to head domination. The '75 Reds had quite the chip on their shoulder, much in the same way they are owned by the Cardinals right now.

    It does make you want to scream, but I will not resign that its "they are better than us." The records are too similar to conclude that.
    Can't win with 'em

    Can't win without 'em

  4. #678
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: 8.26.13 Reds @ Cardinals

    Quote Originally Posted by Beltway View Post
    Doubtful. Even if the Cardinals resign Beltran and Taveras plays CF (Taveras projects as a corner outfielder), they'll probably keep Jay as a 4th outfielder because Holliday and Beltran need so much rest due to their age/health. I wouldn't be surprised to see the Cards go with a 4-outfielder rotation next season of Holliday/Beltran/Jay/Taveras, where each gets around 120 starts.
    Yep, Jay is definitely too valuable of a player to nontender.
    Even if the Cards had no use for him (they do), he would be a nice piece of trade bait.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  5. #679
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    Re: 8.26.13 Reds @ Cardinals

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post
    Yep, Jay is definitely too valuable of a player to nontender.
    Even if the Cards had no use for him (they do), he would be a nice piece of trade bait.
    Yeah, he would probably be worth a #4 or #5 starter or a good relief pitcher in a trade.

  6. #680
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    Re: 8.26.13 Reds @ Cardinals

    Quote Originally Posted by Beltway View Post
    Doubtful. Even if the Cardinals resign Beltran and Taveras plays CF (Taveras projects as a corner outfielder), they'll probably keep Jay as a 4th outfielder because Holliday and Beltran need so much rest due to their age/health. I wouldn't be surprised to see the Cards go with a 4-outfielder rotation next season of Holliday/Beltran/Jay/Taveras, where each gets around 120 starts.
    Cardinals definitely have some options.

    The way I see it, Freese is likely gone this year. Carpenter slides to 3rd, Wong stays at 2nd, Matt Adams moves to 1st. Allen Craig is moved to Right Field.

    Taveras / Jon Jay / Shane Robinson would be the guys left vying for Center Field.... and Resigning Beltran would complicate the 1st Base/Right Field situation. It's all contingent on how Taveras recovers from surgery and looks at Spring Training....

    but my bet is that Jon Jay at the very least is traded away by July of next year.

  7. #681
    Moderator The Operator's Avatar
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    Re: 8.26.13 Reds @ Cardinals

    Quote Originally Posted by Mutaman View Post
    Vs +.500 teams:

    Leake: 4-3
    Arroyo: 4-6
    Homer: 1-6
    Again, win-loss records mean absolutely ZERO when evaluating how well someone has pitched. You could go 0-35 with a 1.00 ERA if your team can't score for you.

    If you're gonna call someone a disappointment, back it up with a stat that's a little better than W-L record, which (just like RBIs) is completely dependent on how well the rest of your teammates perform around you.
    Quote Originally Posted by BCubb2003 View Post
    Don't worry. I'd say the game threads are about league average.
    2013 Reds Record when I attend: 5-4
    2012 Reds Record when I attend: 10-7

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    Raisor (08-27-2013)

  9. #682
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    Re: 8.26.13 Reds @ Cardinals

    Quote Originally Posted by The Operator View Post
    Again, win-loss records mean absolutely ZERO when evaluating how well someone has pitched. You could go 0-35 with a 1.00 ERA if your team can't score for you.

    If you're gonna call someone a disappointment, back it up with a stat that's a little better than W-L record, which (just like RBIs) is completely dependent on how well the rest of your teammates perform around you.
    Really? So you don't even get a rbi for a HR anymore?

  10. #683
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    Re: 8.26.13 Reds @ Cardinals

    Quote Originally Posted by Falcon7 View Post
    Really? So you don't even get a rbi for a HR anymore?
    Hitters have as much control over RBIs as pitchers have control over wins. Sure, hitters can hit HRs to get RBIs, but you're not going to have a high RBI total unless lots of people get on base in front of you. Similarly true for pitchers, they can only control how many runs they give up. If a starting pitcher gives up exactly 2 runs every game, he's not going to have a high win total unless he has decent run support. If he loses 2-1 or 2-0 every game, does that mean he's a bad pitcher? That's why wins and RBIs are bad stats for player evaluation.

  11. #684
    Moderator The Operator's Avatar
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    Re: 8.26.13 Reds @ Cardinals

    Quote Originally Posted by Falcon7 View Post
    Really? So you don't even get a rbi for a HR anymore?
    Sure - and it'd take 100 HR to get to 100 RBIs if you don't have your teammates doing their job by getting on base in front of you.
    Quote Originally Posted by BCubb2003 View Post
    Don't worry. I'd say the game threads are about league average.
    2013 Reds Record when I attend: 5-4
    2012 Reds Record when I attend: 10-7

  12. #685
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: 8.26.13 Reds @ Cardinals

    Quote Originally Posted by The Operator View Post
    Sure - and it'd take 100 HR to get to 100 RBIs
    100 Rally killers. Cowboy and Thom would explode.
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

  13. #686
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    Re: 8.26.13 Reds @ Cardinals

    Quote Originally Posted by The Operator View Post
    Again, win-loss records mean absolutely ZERO when evaluating how well someone has pitched.
    You're the one who used win -loss records as a criteria in post #658.

    In any event the notion that they mean " absolutely zero" is...... what can I say?

  14. #687
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    Re: 8.26.13 Reds @ Cardinals

    Quote Originally Posted by The Operator View Post
    If you're gonna call someone a disappointment, back it up with a stat that's a little better than W-L record
    How will I know if the stat I choose meets with your approval?

  15. #688
    "So Fla Red"
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    Re: 8.26.13 Reds @ Cardinals

    Let's try two concurrent game threads. That might be what is needed to break the Swill Beer Stadium curse.

  16. #689
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    Re: 8.26.13 Reds @ Cardinals

    What the heck, I have time on my hands.

    ERA against +.500 teams:

    Bronson: 4.74

    Leake: 3.68

    Homer: 6.17


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