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Thread: Pirates Trade for Marlon Byrd and John Buck

  1. #16
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Pirates Trade for Marlon Byrd and John Buck

    It's pretty hard to criticize this move from the Pirates perspective.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

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    Old school 1983 (09-28-2013)

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  4. #17
    ROSE TO THE HOF!!! KYBatsFan's Avatar
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    Re: Pirates Trade for Marlon Byrd and John Buck

    I still don't "get" all MLB trading rules
    "I had a cigar in my back pocket...I didn't wanna break it." - Bartholomew "Bump" Bailey

  5. #18
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    Re: Pirates Trade for Marlon Byrd and John Buck

    Quote Originally Posted by sabometrics View Post
    I'm gonna play the devil's advocate here. Maybe Walt is looking at the long-run? He's fine with a slightly improved Pirates team in the short term, so long as that means they are shipping talent out of the division for the long-term? Maybe he's strategically letting the Pirates make moves in the same way a leader might let an enemy win a major battle at the expense of depleting their reserves and overtaking them in the future?
    For what it's worth, this is exactly how the Brewers went back to be one of the bottom feeders as they should. Acquiring CC and co. had gutted them good. In the hindsight, they let the wrong one go when they let Prince walk and kept the lying roidhead, too.

  6. #19
    Member Lewdog's Avatar
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    Re: Pirates Trade for Marlon Byrd and John Buck

    Great teams have enough talent in the minors, that during September call ups they stock themselves with enough talent, (Billy Hamilton) that they don't have to sacrifice the future for one year rental players.

  7. #20
    Moderator RedlegJake's Avatar
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    Re: Pirates Trade for Marlon Byrd and John Buck

    Quote Originally Posted by Lewdog View Post
    Great teams have enough talent in the minors, that during September call ups they stock themselves with enough talent, (Billy Hamilton) that they don't have to sacrifice the future for one year rental players.
    Not always. Sometimes a key deal can play a role - ala Broxton last year. Juan Guzman in '99. BUT, neither of those guys cost a top notch prospect that really hurt long term (unless you feel missing Donnie Joseph is gonna cripple the Reds future). But if Vic Black and Dilson Herrera cripple the Bucs future, then the Pirates didn't have much of a future anyway. Black is a Partch like relief prospect and Herrera a good hitting 19 y/o 2nd baseman - HRod with more power and better glove but limited to second because of an iffy arm. I'd trade them for Buck and Byrd and a better shot. With the weakened state of the Reds farm and less need for Buck, and Byrd limited by Ludwick to a pinch hitting role, I don't know that I'd do a similar deal from Cincy's standpoint.

  8. #21
    Member Lewdog's Avatar
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    Re: Pirates Trade for Marlon Byrd and John Buck

    Quote Originally Posted by RedlegJake View Post
    Not always. Sometimes a key deal can play a role - ala Broxton last year. Juan Guzman in '99. BUT, neither of those guys cost a top notch prospect that really hurt long term (unless you feel missing Donnie Joseph is gonna cripple the Reds future). But if Vic Black and Dilson Herrera cripple the Bucs future, then the Pirates didn't have much of a future anyway. Black is a Partch like relief prospect and Herrera a good hitting 19 y/o 2nd baseman - HRod with more power and better glove but limited to second because of an iffy arm. I'd trade them for Buck and Byrd and a better shot. With the weakened state of the Reds farm and less need for Buck, and Byrd limited by Ludwick to a pinch hitting role, I don't know that I'd do a similar deal from Cincy's standpoint.
    That's just it, in today's farm system you never know who is a major league talent, and who isn't. 50th rounders are making the majors, while first rounders are being cut and picked up by the Astros in rule 5 drafts. I thought the Latos deal was going to hurt the Reds, but I can admit I was wrong.

    Volquez has never regained his form, and has moved on from the Padres. Grandal was busted for PEDs. Alonso has been with three teams I believe since the trade and can't find a regular playing role, and Boxberger is just a project.

    I also didn't care for the Stubbs deal, I thought giving up on the speedy Stubbs and the future SS for the Reds in Gregorius for a one year rental player in Choo was a dumb move. Stubbs hasn't done much in Cleveland, Gregorius has flashed a nice glove in Arizona but not hit any better than Cozart, while Choo has been a nice bridge that has allowed the Reds to transition Billy Hamilton from SS to CF.

    The Reds still have talent in the minors, it's just not Puig type talent where fans are beating down Jocketty's door asking for them to be called up, but if you look at the Red's every day line up, where are their holes? Left field? There won't be if they put Hamilton in center and resign Choo to play left. After that the team is filled. They could use a young lefty for the bull pen to take Marshall's place, and it looks as if Hoover will be taking Broxton's place as the right handed set up man. So a left handed middle reliever or situational guy? That's about it. It's a nice position to be in. Personally I don't like not having an every day threat of a hitting catcher, but if Mesoraco and Hannigan continue to play good defense and handle the pitching staff the way they do, it's something I'll have to live with.

  9. #22
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    Re: Pirates Trade for Marlon Byrd and John Buck

    Bringing this back up!! It was a terrible move by the Reds to not block that trade!! Looks even worse now!! No excuse. Bad bad move by our GM.

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    Redsfansince72 (09-28-2013)

  11. #23
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    Re: Pirates Trade for Marlon Byrd and John Buck

    Quote Originally Posted by TDogg View Post
    Reds didn't make a claim. Cards didn't make a claim. Neither one blocked the move the Pirates made. That's telling.
    I can think of one GM who wishes he could go back and make a claim....maybe 2 gm's if Byrd can help the pirates beat the cardinals....it was talked about in several threads here...you put in claims to not only help your team but to block other teams from picking them up, especially teams you are fighting against for a playoff spot. Historically bad move by our GM..historically.

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    BuckeyeRedleg (10-04-2013)


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