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Thread: Do you want Phillips traded or do you think he'll get traded in the off season?

  1. #106
    Worst Behavior. reds44's Avatar
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    Re: Do you want Phillips traded or do you think he'll get traded in the off season?

    With Frazier's defense at 3B, I wonder if he could still handle SS.
    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    Let's face it, you mis-hit the bun with the mustard squirter, no one will really care.

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  3. #107
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    Re: Do you want Phillips traded or do you think he'll get traded in the off season?

    Quote Originally Posted by cumberlandreds View Post
    His contract make him almost untradeable. I wouldn't trade him anyway.
    Small correction.... untradeable at any conditions favorable to the Reds.

    Remember, the Cubs did move Soriano this year and his contract terms vs performance was on a different planet when compared to datdude.

  4. #108
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    Re: Do you want Phillips traded or do you think he'll get traded in the off season?

    I don't think the Reds would have given him that contract if there was help in the immediate future coming from the minors. I don't think he will be traded.

  5. #109
    Member cincrazy's Avatar
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    Re: Do you want Phillips traded or do you think he'll get traded in the off season?

    I've been as hard on Brandon as anyone about the C. Trent situation, but never in a million years would I use that as a basis to trade him.

    Now, say Cano leaves the Yankees and they're looking for a replacement. Do I knock on their door and see if they're interested? Absolutely I would. Brandon is a good player, but he's declining and overpaid. In a few years I don't think this deal will look good at all. If I'm Walt, I at least explore the market. But I think there's a 0% chance of that happening, because to do so would admit that the signing was a mistake in the first place.

  6. #110
    Moderator RedlegJake's Avatar
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    Re: Do you want Phillips traded or do you think he'll get traded in the off season?

    Trade Phillips? And play whom? There is not a plausible prospect until you get to Billings in the rookie league where you have Avain Rachal who looks really, really good. He is all of 19. He is in the rookie league which signifies nothing (although his numbers are impressive). Above that failed-phenom filled league there is not a second baseman worth a second look. HRod has an iron glove and a BABIP driven bat in the lower levels that turned toothpick once AAA pitching and the lords of reality bit his BABIP pumpkin into a normal number. The FA list reveals more costly options like Cano who is not coming to GAB. Utley is 34 and will likely cost as much or more as BP if the Phils don't extend him. Infante? Johnson? Keep Phillips.

  7. #111
    No half measures, Walter RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: Do you want Phillips traded or do you think he'll get traded in the off season?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedlegJake View Post
    Trade Phillips? And play whom? There is not a plausible prospect until you get to Billings in the rookie league where you have Avain Rachal who looks really, really good. He is all of 19. He is in the rookie league which signifies nothing (although his numbers are impressive). Above that failed-phenom filled league there is not a second baseman worth a second look. HRod has an iron glove and a BABIP driven bat in the lower levels that turned toothpick once AAA pitching and the lords of reality bit his BABIP pumpkin into a normal number. The FA list reveals more costly options like Cano who is not coming to GAB. Utley is 34 and will likely cost as much or more as BP if the Phils don't extend him. Infante? Johnson? Keep Phillips.
    I see what you are saying, but I think at a certain point you can't just keep BP because he's slightly better than the alternatives. If 2B is a black hole league wide, the smart teams will just plug in a replacement-level player, save money, and look to invest elsewhere.

  8. #112
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    Re: Do you want Phillips traded or do you think he'll get traded in the off season?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    I see what you are saying, but I think at a certain point you can't just keep BP because he's slightly better than the alternatives. If 2B is a black hole league wide, the smart teams will just plug in a replacement-level player, save money, and look to invest elsewhere.
    I gather from this that the view of some is that Phillips is slightly better than a replacement level alternative. I find this to be a mind boggling statement. The guy is driving runs at a very high rate this year. High rate -- not just a high number but a high percentage. He is still a gold glove candidate. He was the NL starting all star second baseman.

    It continues to amaze me how everybody just applauds Frazier, hitting .230, Mesoraco hitting .690 OPS or thereabouts, and folks want to get rid of Brandon Phillips.

    The Reds need some veterans like Phillips. Even if his performance isn't at its peak. This isn't AA ball, it isn't all about potential high upsides. You need some guys who have been around the block and have shown they can play over a sustained period.
    Last edited by Kc61; 08-30-2013 at 03:34 PM.

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  10. #113
    Member Wonderful Monds's Avatar
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    Re: Do you want Phillips traded or do you think he'll get traded in the off season?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    I gather from this that the view of some is that Phillips is slightly better than a replacement level alternative. I find this to be a mind boggling statement. The guy is driving runs at a very high rate this year. High rate -- not just a high number but a high percentage. He is still a gold glove candidate. He was the NL starting all star second baseman.

    It continues to amaze me how everybody just applauds Frazier, hitting .230, Mesoraco hitting .690 OPS or thereabouts, and folks want to get rid of Brandon Phillips.

    The Reds need some veterans like Phillips. Even if his performance isn't at its peak. This isn't AA ball, it isn't all about potential high upsides. You need some guys who have been around the block and have shown they can play over a sustained period.
    Plus this is, what, his first below average year as a Red? I don't know why everyone is just assuming the guy is done for, maybe this could be just a down year.
    They don't think it be like it is, but it do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Schuler View Post
    He has also taught me that even when the Reds win it is important to focus on the fact that they could have lost.

  11. #114
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Do you want Phillips traded or do you think he'll get traded in the off season?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Servo View Post
    Move Frazier to 2B. I am half serious.
    I don't think it's a horrible idea. He certainly won't be Phillips out there, but he could probably be a Jeff Kent type.

    Of course, it's not like we have a 3B banging down the door. Playing Whack-A-Mole isn't a great roster construction strategy.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  12. #115
    Member Wonderful Monds's Avatar
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    Re: Do you want Phillips traded or do you think he'll get traded in the off season?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    I don't think it's a horrible idea. He certainly won't be Phillips out there, but he could probably be a Jeff Kent type.

    Of course, it's not like we have a 3B banging down the door. Playing Whack-A-Mole isn't a great roster construction strategy.
    Could trade for Aramis Ramirez.

    CF
    Frazier
    Votto
    Bruce
    Ramirez
    Ludwick
    Mesoraco
    Cozart

    is a pretty good lineup. There was a Fangraphs article this season about the type of guys who play 2B now, it was based on Matt Carpenter. Frazier could be one of those guys.
    They don't think it be like it is, but it do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Schuler View Post
    He has also taught me that even when the Reds win it is important to focus on the fact that they could have lost.

  13. #116
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Do you want Phillips traded or do you think he'll get traded in the off season?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    I don't think it's a horrible idea. He certainly won't be Phillips out there, but he could probably be a Jeff Kent type.

    Of course, it's not like we have a 3B banging down the door. Playing Whack-A-Mole isn't a great roster construction strategy.
    The Reds tried Frazier at 2B. It was an utter disaster.

    For whatever reason, he just flat out looked confused with everything on that side of the bag. His reactions were slow and his footwork was terrible. He looked like he was out there trying to learn to throw left handed and had to think through every last motion from his toes to his hand to make a play.

  14. #117
    Member Wonderful Monds's Avatar
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    Re: Do you want Phillips traded or do you think he'll get traded in the off season?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    The Reds tried Frazier at 2B. It was an utter disaster.

    For whatever reason, he just flat out looked confused with everything on that side of the bag. His reactions were slow and his footwork was terrible. He looked like he was out there trying to learn to throw left handed and had to think through every last motion from his toes to his hand to make a play.
    Of course, he was also not the best 3B before this year either. Maybe he could handle it now that he's a little more seasoned.
    They don't think it be like it is, but it do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Schuler View Post
    He has also taught me that even when the Reds win it is important to focus on the fact that they could have lost.

  15. #118
    Member mdccclxix's Avatar
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    Re: Do you want Phillips traded or do you think he'll get traded in the off season?

    IIRC, Frazier struggled with footwork at 2b and was deemed unlikely to succeed there.

  16. #119
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Do you want Phillips traded or do you think he'll get traded in the off season?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    The Reds tried Frazier at 2B. It was an utter disaster.

    For whatever reason, he just flat out looked confused with everything on that side of the bag. His reactions were slow and his footwork was terrible. He looked like he was out there trying to learn to throw left handed and had to think through every last motion from his toes to his hand to make a play.
    I had forgotten that. At this point, it sounds like that shift would take a lot more work than we can afford.

    It reminds me of Aaron Boone. Actually, Boone isn't a horrible comp for Frazier in general. Boone had a bit more speed and Frazier has a little more power and swing & miss, but in general they're fairly similar types of player.

    And Aaron didn't really work at 2B either.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  17. #120
    Member Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: Do you want Phillips traded or do you think he'll get traded in the off season?

    I definitely had Boone in mind when I brought up the 2B possibility, as well as the guys a lot of teams in recent years have converted into second basemen as WonderfulMonds touched on like Skip Schumaker, Matt Carpenter, Neil Walker, Daniel Murphy, etc. I think it would something worth trying...but it only matters if the Reds trade BP, which they 95% likely won't, so it's a moot point.
    "Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."


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