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Thread: Do you want Phillips traded or do you think he'll get traded in the off season?

  1. #121
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    Re: Do you want Phillips traded or do you think he'll get traded in the off season?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Servo View Post
    I definitely had Boone in mind when I brought up the 2B possibility, as well as the guys a lot of teams in recent years have converted into second basemen as WonderfulMonds touched on like Skip Schumaker, Matt Carpenter, Neil Walker, Daniel Murphy, etc. I think it would something worth trying...but it only matters if the Reds trade BP, which they 95% likely won't, so it's a moot point.
    I know this is a very prospect-oriented site, most message boards are, fans love the home-grown young players. It's understandable.

    But Todd Frazier has hit .230 with a .705 OPS and a below .390 SLG -- as a power hitter -- this year. I wouldn't make a lot of plans built around him as a regular until he snaps back offensively.

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  4. #122
    Member Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: Do you want Phillips traded or do you think he'll get traded in the off season?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    I know this is a very prospect-oriented site, most message boards are, fans love the home-grown young players. It's understandable.

    But Todd Frazier has hit .230 with a .705 OPS and a below .390 SLG -- as a power hitter -- this year. I wouldn't make a lot of plans built around him as a regular until he snaps back offensively.
    I agree, that line as it stands isn't acceptable for a 3B. Which is why iin this alternate, post-BP world I would look to see if he could play a middle infield position where his bat would play better. Realistically, we are keeping BP and if there is an upgrade to be made at 3B, I make it.
    "Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."

  5. #123
    Member Wonderful Monds's Avatar
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    Re: Do you want Phillips traded or do you think he'll get traded in the off season?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Servo View Post
    I agree, that line as it stands isn't acceptable for a 3B. Which is why iin this alternate, post-BP world I would look to see if he could play a middle infield position where his bat would play better. Realistically, we are keeping BP and if there is an upgrade to be made at 3B, I make it.
    could still get A.Ramirez. I know he costs a bit, someone said he makes 16 milli next year, but if the Reds traded a better prospect than his immediate worth maybe the Brewers could cover like half of that.
    They don't think it be like it is, but it do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Schuler View Post
    He has also taught me that even when the Reds win it is important to focus on the fact that they could have lost.

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  7. #124
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    Re: Do you want Phillips traded or do you think he'll get traded in the off season?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wonderful Monds View Post
    Plus this is, what, his first below average year as a Red? I don't know why everyone is just assuming the guy is done for, maybe this could be just a down year.
    Actually as a Red he's had 4 seasons with his OPS+ below 100 and 4 above it. Obviously doesn't take defense into account but at least offensively he's been below average as often as he's been above average. Overall that adds up to average with a downward trend the last two years. This has nothing to do with his recent altercation, if someone would take his full contract off his hands I don't want him here when he's OPSing .650 as a 35-36 year old.

  8. #125
    Member Wonderful Monds's Avatar
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    Re: Do you want Phillips traded or do you think he'll get traded in the off season?

    Quote Originally Posted by UC_Ken View Post
    Actually as a Red he's had 4 seasons with his OPS+ below 100 and 4 above it. Obviously doesn't take defense into account but at least offensively he's been below average as often as he's been above average. Overall that adds up to average with a downward trend the last two years. This has nothing to do with his recent altercation, if someone would take his full contract off his hands I don't want him here when he's OPSing .650 as a 35-36 year old.
    He's still been an above average 2B, as OPS+ does not account for position.
    They don't think it be like it is, but it do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Schuler View Post
    He has also taught me that even when the Reds win it is important to focus on the fact that they could have lost.

  9. #126
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    Re: Do you want Phillips traded or do you think he'll get traded in the off season?

    Quote Originally Posted by UC_Ken View Post
    Actually as a Red he's had 4 seasons with his OPS+ below 100 and 4 above it. Obviously doesn't take defense into account but at least offensively he's been below average as often as he's been above average. Overall that adds up to average with a downward trend the last two years. This has nothing to do with his recent altercation, if someone would take his full contract off his hands I don't want him here when he's OPSing .650 as a 35-36 year old.
    Not sure composite stats tell the whole story. For example, OPS+ is not limited to second basemen. If you look at BP's lifetime record as a Red, I would speculate that he has been a much better offensive player than the average second baseman. Include only those with plus gloves like Brandon, I'd guess he's pretty high up offensively.

    And last year, for example, BP was just under 100 OPS+. But he hit .281 with a .750 OPS and was 13th in the MVP voting. This year, his OBI% (knocking in baserunners as a percentage) is among the best in Major League Baseball.

    In BP's case, my big gripe is that he doesn't walk much and he has lost speed. But I think he adds a lot to a ballclub even if his OPS or OPS+ is down from time to time.
    Last edited by Kc61; 08-30-2013 at 07:32 PM.

  10. #127
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    Re: Do you want Phillips traded or do you think he'll get traded in the off season?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    If you look at BP's lifetime record as a Red, I would speculate that he has been a much better offensive player than the average second baseman. .
    Code:
    CAREER
    2006-2012
    2B
    OBA vs. the league average displayed only--not a sorting criteria
    SLG vs. the league average displayed only--not a sorting criteria
    AVERAGE vs. the league average displayed only--not a sorting criteria
    SECONDARY AVERAGE vs. the league average displayed only--not a sorting criteria
    PLATE APPEARANCES displayed only--not a sorting criteria
    
    RUNS CREATED/GAME               DIFF   PLAYER   LEAGUE     OBA      SLG      AVG      SEC      PA     
    1    Chase Utley                2.53     7.55     5.03     .046     .077     .024     .081     4073   
    2    Dustin Pedroia             1.52     6.35     4.83     .038     .043     .039     .024     3824   
    3    Robinson Cano              1.37     6.21     4.85     .024     .089     .045     .002     4559   
    4    Ian Kinsler                0.93     5.77     4.84     .019     .041     .007     .076     4177   
    5    Brian Roberts              0.77     5.76     4.99     .020    -.004     .013     .049     3279   
    6    Rickie Weeks               0.77     5.71     4.94     .018     .013    -.012     .066     3587   
    7    Dan Uggla                  0.71     5.69     4.98     .008     .047    -.013     .076     4674   
    8    Kelly Johnson              0.37     5.25     4.88     .006     .014    -.008     .050     3432   
    9    Placido Polanco            0.16     5.22     5.06     .013    -.016     .037    -.102     2440   
    10   Aaron Hill                 0.00     4.89     4.89    -.007     .016     .006    -.015     4045   
    11   Orlando Hudson             0.00     5.01     5.01     .014    -.011     .012    -.009     3481   
    12   Howie Kendrick             -.08     4.68     4.76     .001     .013     .030    -.057     2949   
    13   Brandon Phillips           -.10     4.88     4.97    -.006     .024     .014    -.007     4526   
    14   Omar Infante               -.28     4.51     4.79    -.005    -.014     .025    -.079     2386   
    15   Freddy Sanchez             -.40     4.63     5.02    -.010    -.017     .023    -.103     2490   
    16   Jamey Carroll              -.41     4.51     4.93     .021    -.076     .012    -.072     2609   
    17   Mark Ellis                 -.53     4.36     4.89    -.010    -.033    -.006    -.038     3534   
    18   Luis Castillo              -.54     4.55     5.09     .024    -.086     .015    -.053     2505   
    19   Jose Lopez                 -.90     4.16     5.07    -.030    -.009     .006    -.082     2556   
    20   Aaron Miles               -1.25     3.80     5.05    -.017    -.079     .010    -.136     2139

  11. #128
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    Re: Do you want Phillips traded or do you think he'll get traded in the off season?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Servo View Post
    Move Frazier to 2B. I am half serious.
    He'd probably be as good as Carpenter there.
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

  12. #129
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    Re: Do you want Phillips traded or do you think he'll get traded in the off season?

    is contract is whats going to push teams away but the truth is he is the most popular player on this team

  13. #130
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    Re: Do you want Phillips traded or do you think he'll get traded in the off season?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redsfan08 View Post
    is contract is whats going to push teams away but the truth is he is the most popular player on this team
    I like Votto and Bruce and Choo better. But hey, I'm just one guy.
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

  14. #131
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    Re: Do you want Phillips traded or do you think he'll get traded in the off season?

    http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/po...er-comparisons

    Player A: .243/.311/.433, 17 HR, 102 OPS+
    Player B: .267/.316/.420, 18 HR, 98 OPS+

    Looks pretty close, right? What if I told you one of these guys has 101 RBIs and has been touted as an MVP candidate by some (OK, at least one prominent national broadcaster), and the other guy has 60 RBIs.

    Player A is Twins second baseman Brian Dozier and Player B is Reds second baseman Brandon Phillips. In terms of WAR, Dozier has the bigger advantage, 3.8 to 1.7. Look, Phillips is hitting .354 with runners in scoring position. He's also hitting .211 with a .249 OBP with the bases empty; those at-bats count, too. Phillips has made the fourth-most outs in the NL.

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  16. #132
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    Re: Do you want Phillips traded or do you think he'll get traded in the off season?

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/po...er-comparisons

    Player A: .243/.311/.433, 17 HR, 102 OPS+
    Player B: .267/.316/.420, 18 HR, 98 OPS+
    Sure, those ABs count too. They just count less.

  17. #133
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Do you want Phillips traded or do you think he'll get traded in the off season?

    Quote Originally Posted by swaisuc View Post
    Sure, those ABs count too. They just count less.
    Do they though?

    I honestly don't know where to balance it. Yes, he is getting runs in when they are there..... but he is also not starting a darn thing to produce run driving in opportunities for the guys behind him either. Driving in the runs when they are there is obviously valuable. But being the first guy to get on base is pretty valuable too.

  18. #134
    .377 in 1905 CySeymour's Avatar
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    Re: Do you want Phillips traded or do you think he'll get traded in the off season?

    Quote Originally Posted by swaisuc View Post
    Sure, those ABs count too. They just count less.
    So by that logic, Choo's at-bats don't generally count as much because he comes up so often without runner's on base.

    Sorry, I will have to disagree with you on that. Giving other hitter's RBI opportunities are just as valuable.
    ...the 2-2 to Woodsen and here it comes...and it is swung on and missed! And Tom Browning has pitched a perfect game! Twenty-seven outs in a row, and he is being mobbed by his teammates, just to the thirdbase side of the mound.

  19. #135
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    Re: Do you want Phillips traded or do you think he'll get traded in the off season?

    Plus players usually have more at bats without runners in scoring position than the other way around.


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