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Thread: Who plays CF in 2014?

  1. #76
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    Re: Who plays CF in 2014?

    Re-sign Choo, please.

    Most think there's no shot. I am holding out hope.
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

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  4. #77
    Member NebraskaRed's Avatar
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    Re: Who plays CF in 2014?

    Quote Originally Posted by lollipopcurve View Post
    Re-sign Choo, please.

    Most think there's no shot. I am holding out hope.
    I hope Walt finds every cent available to pay Choo whatever it takes. Walt can roll pennies, nickles, and dimes. Walt can go door-to-door and ask for donations. Whatever it takes. Make the team pay for their own drinks out of a vending machine like the Oakland A's did. Whatever it takes. Sell ad space to the highest bidder. Even if their official name next year has to be "The Cincinnati Reds brought to you by LaRosa's Pizza and Fifth Third Bank." Whatever it takes.

  5. #78
    A thing I can't identify marcshoe's Avatar
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    Re: Who plays CF in 2014?

    It will be hard to go back to a typical leadoff hitter if Choo walks. No matter what the Reds do, the guy in the number one slot will drop off.

    That's not to denigrate Billy "White Shoes" Hamilton in any way; I think he could be decent next year, but I think that if Choo isn't there next year, just how much he meant to this team will become evident.
    “The great thing about getting older is that you don't lose all the other ages you've been.”
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  6. #79
    A thing I can't identify marcshoe's Avatar
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    Re: Who plays CF in 2014?

    Quote Originally Posted by NebraskaRed View Post
    I hope Walt finds every cent available to pay Choo whatever it takes. Walt can roll pennies, nickles, and dimes. Walt can go door-to-door and ask for donations. Whatever it takes. Make the team pay for their own drinks out of a vending machine like the Oakland A's did. Whatever it takes. Sell ad space to the highest bidder. Even if their official name next year has to be "The Cincinnati Reds brought to you by LaRosa's Pizza and Fifth Third Bank." Whatever it takes.
    After this year's promotion, Fifth Third Bank may own Larosa's Pizza next year. . . .
    “The great thing about getting older is that you don't lose all the other ages you've been.”
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  7. #80
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: Who plays CF in 2014?

    Quote Originally Posted by NebraskaRed View Post
    I hope Walt finds every cent available to pay Choo whatever it takes. Walt can roll pennies, nickles, and dimes. Walt can go door-to-door and ask for donations. Whatever it takes. Make the team pay for their own drinks out of a vending machine like the Oakland A's did. Whatever it takes. Sell ad space to the highest bidder. Even if their official name next year has to be "The Cincinnati Reds brought to you by LaRosa's Pizza and Fifth Third Bank." Whatever it takes.
    I dreamt that the lack of moves this year was based on the stipulation that Walt would be given a realistic shot of paying Choo.

    Don't get mad at me, as I am not even 100 percent on board with the idea, it was just a dream. Can't be accountable for that!

  8. #81
    A thing I can't identify marcshoe's Avatar
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    Re: Who plays CF in 2014?

    Hmmm. . . I dreamed that the Reds signed Chapman a week before they did. I also dreamed that Cesar Geronimo was invited to Spring Training and was the best hitter on the team.
    “The great thing about getting older is that you don't lose all the other ages you've been.”
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  9. #82
    Legen...dary reds44's Avatar
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    Re: Who plays CF in 2014?

    The only way I re-sign Choo is if you move Phillips first.

    Otherwise you're going to be looking at a lot of bad money later in those contracts on top of Votto's 700 billion dollars.

    If you move Phillips, play Choo in CF next year and then slide him over to LF when Ludwick is gone/Hamilton is ready, I could go for that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Norm Chortleton View Post
    The old Votto is back when he starts cussing himself out between pitches.

  10. #83
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    Re: Who plays CF in 2014?

    Quote Originally Posted by lollipopcurve View Post
    Re-sign Choo, please.

    Most think there's no shot. I am holding out hope.
    A lot's going to depend on how much of a increase Choo wants from his 7 million this year.

    Cot's has 79 million in contracts already for 2014. Hanigan and Bailey are due for their third arbitration raise, Leake his 2nd. That'll give us roughly 25 million to handle arbitration and handle any other contracts.

    It's not impossible, but the numbers dictate it will be very hard to do.

  11. #84
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    Re: Who plays CF in 2014?

    I probably would not re-sign Choo to more than a 2 year deal with an option.

    Between Hamilton, Yorman, Winker and Ervin, it doesn't make much sense to carry an inflated salary for Choo past 2015. One or more of those guys will (hopefully) step in and be ready to takeover starting duties for much, MUCH cheaper by that point. I might consider a backloaded 3rd year, especially if it were in the form of an option.

    Otherwise, I think this deal will hamstring the team too much come 2016 and 2017, especially with Votto/Bruce/Phillips and hopefully Latos and one or two other pitchers making a lot of dough during those years. Choo will certainly not be able to handle CF by then, and the Reds have enough in the pipeline to comfortably take care of LF by then.

    What we likely WON'T have by 2016 is a capable, younger cheaper solution at SS or 3B, and Cozart and Frazier could start to get expensive in those arbitration years. If they're worth it, great, but if they are just league average guys that are getting expensive, I'd rather use chips (or currency) to acquire an ABOVE average solution at either or both positions by then.

    Therefore, the big exception to all of this would be if we could pull off a trade of Aroldis Chapman or Homer Bailey for a guy like Jurickson Profar or Xander Bogaerts - because that would both free up some payroll and potentially solve SS for the forseeable future, and for not a lot of money. In that scenario, I'd probably offer Choo something like 3/$35M or maybe even 4/$40M. Until then, my offer would be 2/$25M, with an option for 2016. Whatever you do in any scenario, make sure it doesn't preclude you financially from extending Latos and probably one other pitcher.
    Last edited by Benihana; 09-03-2013 at 04:06 PM.
    Go BLUE!!!

  12. #85
    Im a great person Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: Who plays CF in 2014?

    I feel like I look at the breakdown of BP's contract every few weeks, shudder, and then after a few weeks tell myself "Well, maybe it wasn't really that bad. I should check again..."
    "Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."

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  14. #86
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    Re: Who plays CF in 2014?

    Quote Originally Posted by junkhead View Post
    Another former Indian Grady Sizemore who was a teammate with Choo.

    http://www.sbnation.com/mlb/2013/8/1...tract-comeback
    And has not been good since 2008

  15. #87
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    Re: Who plays CF in 2014?

    Quote Originally Posted by AmarilloRed View Post
    Since Stubbs was brought up earlier in the thread, he's got a .678 OPS this year with Cleveland. I checked the Indians board and they think that's just fine for the #9 slot.I really expect him to do .670-.700 for the near future.

    Although-he will be entering his arbitration years soon. That had to be a calculation the Reds made when they made the trade. That-and his terrible year in 2012.
    Yes. Stubbs is not a horrible complimentary player. I think the Reds had to move him to Cleveland to get the $$ to work for Choo.

    For example, if Stubbs was a FA, he'd be a nice stop gap to play CF next year until BHam is deemed ready.

    I have the feeling that BHam's first year is going to require some patience from the fans and the media. The guy was promoted aggressively. He struggled the first half in AAA, but then did much better in the second half.
    I worry a bit about when he's promoted. Is extra time in AAA going to lessen his adjustment period in the major leagues? I honestly don't know, but I can see lots of people turning on him when he struggles the first 6-8 weeks in the bigs.
    Heck, Parra didn't get much of a grace period when he started the year.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for bringing winning baseball back to Cincy

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  16. #88
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    Re: Who plays CF in 2014?

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post
    Yes. Stubbs is not a horrible complimentary player. I think the Reds had to move him to Cleveland to get the $$ to work for Choo.

    For example, if Stubbs was a FA, he'd be a nice stop gap to play CF next year until BHam is deemed ready.

    I have the feeling that BHam's first year is going to require some patience from the fans and the media. The guy was promoted aggressively. He struggled the first half in AAA, but then did much better in the second half.
    I worry a bit about when he's promoted. Is extra time in AAA going to lessen his adjustment period in the major leagues? I honestly don't know, but I can see lots of people turning on him when he struggles the first 6-8 weeks in the bigs.
    Heck, Parra didn't get much of a grace period when he started the year.
    Good God no.....Dusty batting Stubbs lead off and in CF 70 consecutive games, while waiting on Hamilton?

    I'd rather Hamilton imitate Corey Patterson but steal 70 than watch Stubbs refuse to dive for a ball.

  17. #89
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Who plays CF in 2014?

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    .286/.406/.383/.789 Billy Hamilton, AA age 21
    .335/.402/.386/.788 Willy Taveras, AA, Age 22
    Tavaras wasn't a horrible player in his first three years in the majors though

    age 23, OBP 325, 34 steals, WAR 1.9
    age 24 OBP 333, 33 steals, WAR 2.6
    age 35 OBP 367, 33 steals WAR 1.1 (only 372 AB)

    That's obviously not a star player, but let's say Hamilton replicates that.
    He will have more steals if Dusty lets him run. (I realize the value of steals is controversial)
    Hamilton also projects to be a fantastic defensive CF.

    If Bill H can OBP around the 333 mark like Wily T did for his first three seasons and provide great defense in CF, I'd call that a success for a 2nd round draft pick.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for bringing winning baseball back to Cincy

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

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  19. #90
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Who plays CF in 2014?

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    I think Hamilton's poor season has too many hopers on here lowering their standards too much. If he has a .315 to .320 OBP (which is already a long shot since it would actually mean having a higher OBP in the big leagues than in AAA), we'll be hoping for a replacement ASAP.
    But the reality is that there's not many CF that are OBP monsters.

    There's only 13 CF with at least 300 at bats that have been able to OBP 330 or better this year. Lower the bar to your unacceptable 320, and you have 21 qualifiers. Even Span, one of our big wish list items last year, is only OBPing 329 this year.

    http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/batting...ePct/minpa/300

    That's why I think if BillyH gives us elite defense in CF and OBP 315-320, he's going to be adequate. Not an allstar, but definitely adequate.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for bringing winning baseball back to Cincy

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!


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