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Thread: Votto is not the issue. (Buster Olney Explains)

  1. #1
    Nerdvana Annihilation
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    Votto is not the issue. (Buster Olney Explains)

    Yep,
    This sums it up nicely to the people saying Votto isn't doing his job.

    http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=9629741

    Enjoy.

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    Re: Votto is not the issue. (Buster Olney Explains)

    "Joey Votto is not part of the problem. He's a huge part of the solution."
    "Even a bad day at the ballpark beats the snot out of most other good days. I'll take my scorecard and pencil and beer and hot dog and rage at the dips and cheer at the highs, but I'm not ever going to stop loving this game and this team and nobody will ever take that away from me." Roy Tucker October 2010

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    RZ Chamber of Commerce Unassisted's Avatar
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    Re: Votto is not the issue. (Buster Olney Explains)

    Maybe Buster can take the Brennamans aside and explain this to them, slowly and using small words, the next time he's at a Reds game? Otherwise, the majority of the fanbase will never believe it.
    /r/reds

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    Re: Votto is not the issue. (Buster Olney Explains)

    Gotta love how the most national attention we get this year is over our fanbase trying to string up our best player.
    "Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."

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    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: Votto is not the issue. (Buster Olney Explains)

    The way this debate is being framed is silly. The idea that Joey Votto getting on base is somehow a bad thing is wrong. The idea that Votto is part of the Reds offensive problem is wrong. Having Joey Votto in the lineup day in day out is a very good thing.

    My issue with Votto this season is his lack of power. Last season he was on track to obliterate the 2b record. This year he ranks 24th in the NL in 2b's. He is tied for 10th in HR's with 21 HR's. I would have hoped that he would have more but its a perfectly acceptable. His BA is on the low end of his career numbers. His numbers are pretty far off from his 2012 season which in hindsight was a monster season.

    I have two questions in regards to Votto's performance this season. When Bonds would talk about his hitting, he would say that he would get one good pitch in an at bat and he would punish that pitch. I think its unfair to compare Bonds to Votto because in Bonds PED prime he was a monster. But is Votto getting those good pitches and missing them? Or is he getting those good pitches and taking them to work the count?

    RBI's tell a flawed story. They only tell an outcome that sans the HR don't tell the entire story. But like any stat, when something seems out of whack, there may be a little more to the story. I think the Reds still have a chance at the NL Central but they need Votto to revert to his pre knee 2012 where he was driving the ball all over the park.

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    Re: Votto is not the issue. (Buster Olney Explains)

    Kinda sad when Buster Olney has to explain something to you.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

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    Re: Votto is not the issue. (Buster Olney Explains)

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    The way this debate is being framed is silly. The idea that Joey Votto getting on base is somehow a bad thing is wrong. The idea that Votto is part of the Reds offensive problem is wrong. Having Joey Votto in the lineup day in day out is a very good thing.

    My issue with Votto this season is his lack of power. Last season he was on track to obliterate the 2b record. This year he ranks 24th in the NL in 2b's. He is tied for 10th in HR's with 21 HR's. I would have hoped that he would have more but its a perfectly acceptable. His BA is on the low end of his career numbers. His numbers are pretty far off from his 2012 season which in hindsight was a monster season.

    I have two questions in regards to Votto's performance this season. When Bonds would talk about his hitting, he would say that he would get one good pitch in an at bat and he would punish that pitch. I think its unfair to compare Bonds to Votto because in Bonds PED prime he was a monster. But is Votto getting those good pitches and missing them? Or is he getting those good pitches and taking them to work the count?

    RBI's tell a flawed story. They only tell an outcome that sans the HR don't tell the entire story. But like any stat, when something seems out of whack, there may be a little more to the story. I think the Reds still have a chance at the NL Central but they need Votto to revert to his pre knee 2012 where he was driving the ball all over the park.
    I agree with most of what you are saying here, except about his power numbers. Since the beginning Votto has said he is not a power hitter, plus 21 HR's isn't nothing to sneeze at. I am a little dissappointed his double numbers are down, but I do think he'll be fine. I do think he takes more of those "GOOD" pitches than what Bonds did, whether it's working the count or what, I don't know. But anything at the plate I would tend to think that Joey knows what he is doing!

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    Re: Votto is not the issue. (Buster Olney Explains)

    Joey is 13th in the NL in Slugging.
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

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    Re: Votto is not the issue. (Buster Olney Explains)

    When the day comes that the Reds have, say, seven solid hitters in the lineup, then folks can nit pick Votto or anyone else.

    Right now, with relatively few productive hitters, the only discussion about Votto should be to thank him.

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    Re: Votto is not the issue. (Buster Olney Explains)

    I won't offer an opinion here, just an observation.

    Comparing Votto to the rest of our lineup is not the comparison people should be making. He should be compared to every other team's best hitter/biggest investment, etc. That is the fair comparison in my eyes.

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    Re: Votto is not the issue. (Buster Olney Explains)

    When you're threatening to break an offensive record set by Pete Rose, you're doing something right. I think I get the argument from the complainers, that as a 3 hole hitter, Votto should be focused on driving in runs. I just think it's not necessarily the best strategy; I'd rather a guy go with the better odds, that is to reach base over swinging at the pitcher's pitch. If you take a ball, you're never worse off; if you swing at a ball that's not in hour hitting zone, you're handicapping yourself. The only times I would agree with those swings are to protect a hit/run or some other play, or to protect a two strike count. It really doesn't seem to me like it is wise to try and drive a ball that you normally don't hit well.
    Next Reds manager, second shooter. --Confirmed on Redszone.

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    Re: Votto is not the issue. (Buster Olney Explains)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post

    Right now, with relatively few productive hitters, the only discussion about Votto should be to thank him.
    Every fan base does this with their best player, because they expect him to be a super hero (not pointing at anyone here).

    Prior to this season (when Starling Castro was one of the Cubs best hitters), all Cubs fans complained about was Castro swinging at too many pitches. There were usually 8 other problems in the lineup, but Castro would get the blame.

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    Re: Votto is not the issue. (Buster Olney Explains)

    Quote Originally Posted by dubc47834 View Post
    I agree with most of what you are saying here, except about his power numbers. Since the beginning Votto has said he is not a power hitter, plus 21 HR's isn't nothing to sneeze at. I am a little dissappointed his double numbers are down, but I do think he'll be fine. I do think he takes more of those "GOOD" pitches than what Bonds did, whether it's working the count or what, I don't know. But anything at the plate I would tend to think that Joey knows what he is doing!
    For a player like Votto I think doubles are a good judge of power. He isn't going to be a guy who is going to turn many singles into doubles by raw speed. His doubles are more a result of well hit balls to the gaps or down the line. They will be a result of him driving the ball instead of a flare down the line. When I see his double numbers down to me it says he isn't driving the ball as well as he has in the past.

    I don't know when it became taboo to say that Joey Votto's numbers are down. I think its fair to say that this season has been a little disappointing so far and still think he is a great player.

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    Re: Votto is not the issue. (Buster Olney Explains)

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    His numbers are pretty far off from his 2012 season which in hindsight was a monster season.
    This seems to be a subtle admission that even when he was playing out of his mind, Reds fans still weren't happy.
    "Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."

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    Re: Votto is not the issue. (Buster Olney Explains)

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    Joey is 13th in the NL in Slugging.
    I would use ISO SLG, because the high batting average inflates slugging. Regardless, he is still 21st in ISO, so not bad either.


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