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Thread: BP trade in the offseason?

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  1. #1
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    BP trade in the offseason?

    What do you guys think about trading BP in the offseason? I know he's the best defensive 2nd baseman in the game and he's gonna get his 100 RBI's this year, but is he more valuable to this team than Choo? I think Votto, Bruce, and Ludwick can become our RBI men and we could have Choo leading off again next year with Billy Hamilton batting 2nd and maybe playing 2nd base? Plus we could probably get a lot out of BP right now..A couple decent pitchers and prospects...

  2. #2
    For a Level Playing Field RedFanAlways1966's Avatar
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    Re: BP trade in the offseason?

    Yes, I will be for that. BP is due $50 million over the next 4 seasons. That may seem like a good deal in this day and age, but not for a 33-36 yr old middle infielder with a career 96 OPS+. Almost any MLB hitter batting right behind Choo and Votto (top two OBP guys in their league) will get quite a few RBIs.

    Hamilton at 2nd is probably a big NO though.
    Small market fan... always hoping, but never expecting.

  3. #3
    Moderator RedlegJake's Avatar
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    Re: BP trade in the offseason?

    First, the idea of BH playing second is ludicrous. He was pretty bad at SS and has never even played second. You can't just plug him in there and let it go.

    I take your idea is trade BP to be able to afford to keep Choo. If you can find a workable alternative at second that is reasonably decent and fairly cheap, and if you could actually sign Choo, I could get behind the idea. Trading BP first and then NOT signing Choo would leave you holding a pretty big bag though. So would failing to acquire a reasonable alternative at second. Playing an Izturis type all season would negate the good Choo would do. It would be a GM wizardry type of move where Walt would need to have everything lined up pretty darn well to make sure it all worked out, imo. That makes it unlikely to happen although I like the idea. More reasonable is the possibility they move BP for a couple youngsters, free up that salary, use it to get better bench players or maybe a third baseman that could push Frazier. Still not going to happen, though.

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    Re: BP trade in the offseason?

    Didn't we plug Hamilton into CF without any previous experience? 2nd base is much less stressful than short..I think Hamilton would be fine there. He doesn't have what it takes to be a ss, but I could see him playing 2nd.

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    Moderator RedlegJake's Avatar
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    Re: BP trade in the offseason?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Delancey View Post
    Didn't we plug Hamilton into CF without any previous experience? 2nd base is much less stressful than short..I think Hamilton would be fine there. He doesn't have what it takes to be a ss, but I could see him playing 2nd.
    Yeah...in the minors and he's had a season and a half to get used to it. Plus, he had all the tools to be a plus CFer from the git go. You're asking him to step into second and just do it from scratch. Won't happen. Ask Frazier, Alex Gordon, and a number of others who have been tried at second and failed miserably. The turn and the footwork are trickier than many seem to think. I might go along with the premise that BH is athletic enough to learn it but no way he does it just by stepping into the position and taking off with it. You set him back another year or two.

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    Moderator RedlegJake's Avatar
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    Re: BP trade in the offseason?

    Nice start to your posting on RZ, though, Ron. Hope you are here for many more!

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    Re: BP trade in the offseason?

    Thanks for the compliment..

    I agree that the footwork is the biggest factor for him at 2nd base. I thought maybe a fall ball season and a winter league there would help him get acclimated at the position, but I understand your points. I still think we may shop BP a little to see what we can get in return..

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    Re: BP trade in the offseason?

    Like Votto, Phillips' contract makes him very tough to trade. No way anybody trades a couple of pitchers (that you want) and a couple of prospects for Brandon Phillips with his current contract.

    They don't have a replacement readily available so if you're going to trade Phillips it's going to be a challenge trade where you get back a second baseman that you think is better than Phillips.

    It's very hard to imagine the timing working out so that the world series ends and Phillips is traded before Choo goes into the full out free agent pool.

    Once Choo is in the free agent pool, it is very hard to imagine the reds will be able to outbid all the other teams for his services. I could be wrong, but ...it's just hard for me to see that.

    Most of the times good teams don't get better by deciding who they want to trade away.
    "Even a bad day at the ballpark beats the snot out of most other good days. I'll take my scorecard and pencil and beer and hot dog and rage at the dips and cheer at the highs, but I'm not ever going to stop loving this game and this team and nobody will ever take that away from me." Roy Tucker October 2010

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  11. #9
    Moderator RedlegJake's Avatar
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    Re: BP trade in the offseason?

    Well, I hope Walt shops him but like dfs says, guys with big contracts are on the bad side of the Billy Beane value equation nowadays and cheap prospects are on the high side. A team acquiring BP is going to argue that they are taking on salary so the return going to the Reds should be negligible. The Reds, of course will argue his glove and rbis make him valuable and try to get more but in the end unless the Reds kick in part of his contract or take back another high priced player in return to even the money it is going to be hard to deal him for value. That doesn't mean Walt shouldn't be asking, though.

    Even with BP's salary gone, I wonder if the Reds can compete for Choo in reality. The bidding could get silly with the year he has had. If someone is willing to go six years for instance, in order to sign him, no way in the world. And someone might.

    It is going to be an interesting and tough off season for Walt. His best trading pieces are also key elements of the team. The best prospects are counted on very soon and will replace guys that may not be affordable. None of the best prospects are guys that are blocked. The money situation is tight. There are some obvious weaknesses, like RH hitting - the vulnerability to lefties; the bench; Bailey's impending FA; Cueto's and Marshall's health; CF and is BH ready; Arroyo's contract - to make a qualifying offer or not; Choo. Really I think it's going to be a very critical offseason that may set up or break the team for the next few seasons. More so than most off seasons.
    Last edited by RedlegJake; 09-04-2013 at 02:09 PM.

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    Re: BP trade in the offseason?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedlegJake View Post
    Well, I hope Walt shops him but like dfs says, guys with big contracts are on the bad side of the Billy Beane value equation nowadays and cheap prospects are on the high side. A team acquiring BP is going to argue that they are taking on salary so the return going to the Reds should be negligible. The Reds, of course will argue his glove and rbis make him valuable and try to get more but in the end unless the Reds kick in part of his contract or take back another high priced player in return to even the money it is going to be hard to deal him for value. That doesn't mean Walt shouldn't be asking, though.

    Even with BP's salary gone, I wonder if the Reds can compete for Choo in reality. The bidding could get silly with the year he has had. If someone is willing to go six years for instance, in order to sign him, no way in the world. And someone might.

    It is going to be an interesting and tough off season for Walt. His best trading pieces are also key elements of the team. The best prospects are counted on very soon and will replace guys that may not be affordable. None of the best prospects are guys that are blocked. The money situation is tight. There are some obvious weaknesses, like RH hitting - the vulnerability to lefties; the bench; Bailey's impending FA; Cueto's and Marshall's health; CF and is BH ready; Arroyo's contract - to make a qualifying offer or not; Choo. Really I think it's going to be a very critical offseason that may set up or break the team for the next few seasons. More so than most off seasons.
    I can certainly hope that Walt has a cell phone surgically placed on his ear this offseason (haha). If he doesn't make a few moves, I think it might be his time to go as well. Like you stated, and I 1000% agree with, this is probably the biggest offseason that I can remember.

    The reason is because I think the Cincy fanbase is so sick and tired of their teams being the laughing stock of the professional sports world-- always one and done and look bad doing so. With the firing of Dusty, they really put a big fire out with that IMO. They would of lost quite a few fans from not doing anything at all. I just hope that they make moves to equalize the teams future to more now than later, but still of course have pieces in play so your not stinky down the road. I just want one before I die gosh darn it

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    Re: BP trade in the offseason?

    I don't think Hamilton is necessarily blocked in the outfield, whatever direction the Reds choose to go. No need to find another position for him, he just needs to be ML ready.

    How about trade away Phillips, resign Choo and sign Cano in a master plan to establish an all lefty lineup.

  14. #12
    Member Rantly's Avatar
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    Re: BP trade in the offseason?

    I think it is crazy thinking about trading BP
    What's not to like about the player he has been for the last umpteen years?
    Yes, he's expensive, but he has earned it
    ...and yes i am posting this after his go ahead HR (100 rbis)

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  16. #13
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    Re: BP trade in the offseason?

    I don't understand why every time we get a good player there are always threads about trading them for other players lol.

  17. #14
    Moderator RedlegJake's Avatar
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    Re: BP trade in the offseason?

    Quote Originally Posted by mroby85 View Post
    I don't understand why every time we get a good player there are always threads about trading them for other players lol.
    It is in the nature of fandom. We could have Mike Trout and I guarantee there would be threads about the haul the Reds could get trading him for a boatload of prospects. No matter how good a team is, fans always dream of how the team could get even better.

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    Re: BP trade in the offseason?

    Zero chance Walt even considers it, Brandon is a HUGE fan favorite who just resigned, you don't then just turn around and trade him. Not going to be even considered.


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