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Thread: BP trade in the offseason?

  1. #16
    ROSE TO THE HOF!!! KYBatsFan's Avatar
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    Re: BP trade in the offseason?

    I'd rather not trade a guy we just signed (who is not a bust)
    "I had a cigar in my back pocket...I didn't wanna break it." - Bartholomew "Bump" Bailey

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  3. #17
    For a Level Playing Field RedFanAlways1966's Avatar
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    Re: BP trade in the offseason?

    No such thing as "untradable". Depends on what the return is. Google "Herschel Walker to Vikings trade" and see what the end result was for the Dallas Cowboys.
    Small market fan... always hoping, but never expecting.

  4. #18
    ROSE TO THE HOF!!! KYBatsFan's Avatar
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    Re: BP trade in the offseason?

    Denver Broncos traded Cutler...pretty unheard of for an NFL franchise to trade a productive young QB - so yes anything is possible
    "I had a cigar in my back pocket...I didn't wanna break it." - Bartholomew "Bump" Bailey

  5. #19
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    Re: BP trade in the offseason?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Delancey View Post
    I think Votto, Bruce, and Ludwick can become our RBI men...
    Ludwick's a great guy, and obviously what he did last year (particularly while JV was out) was crucial, but I think projecting him as one of the main RBI guys going forward comes at a considerable risk.

    Ryan is 35 and has had some significant injuries (shoulder, hip) which are the types of things that, even when healed, can make a player age faster than you'd expect (see--Rolen, Scott).

    He's only once topped 150 games in a season, and his two seasons prior to last year were nothing to write home about.

    That's not to say it can't happen, obviously last year shows it can. But if you look at his career as a whole, he's in his 11th season, and only three of those years look like he was putting up "cornerstone guy" type numbers. A team with Ryan Ludwick is a much stronger team if they're projecting him as one of those sort of "extra" bats--not a part time player, but the kind of guy who you say "Well, this is a solid lineup, and when Ludwick is producing down in the 6/7 hole, they just seem like a team that never stops coming at you."

    He's also extremely streaky. Last year, he hit .333 and .327 in July and August, but hit .190, .224 and.253 each of the first three months. In 2011, he hit below .200 in three separate (and nonconcurrent) months. A player like that is great when he's hot, but when one of your main RBI guys is in a cold streak, it can pull down the entire team

  6. #20
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    Re: BP trade in the offseason?

    how about getting valentine back who is about to break the Japanese home run record

  7. #21
    Member Dwarftree's Avatar
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    Re: BP trade in the offseason?

    Yes he is expensive. But why would you want to trade a cornerstone of your franchise? Plus a pretty productive one. And with DatDude goes the same i have written about (probably) loosing Arroyo after this season: I think both guys are very, very important in the clubhouse. Never underestimate that. So dealing BP would be not a smart move imho.

  8. #22
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    Re: BP trade in the offseason?

    You guys still think the idea of BH playing 2nd is ridiculous? Deshields thinks he can do it and Fay has written about it.

  9. #23
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    Re: BP trade in the offseason?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Delancey View Post
    You guys still think the idea of BH playing 2nd is ridiculous? Deshields thinks he can do it and Fay has written about it.
    We know he can do it but he won't be better than BP

  10. #24
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    Re: BP trade in the offseason?

    Reasons why the Reds trade Phillips if a team is willing to take his contract:

    His contract isn't an albatross yet, but it will be in a year or two.

    His bat is in decline.

    He called his boss a liar, when given a chance to recant he did not. Not smart.

    Trade him now while he still has value in the eyes of other GMs

    RBI is a team metric. Get over the number of RBI he had, it is a poor indicator of actual individual performance.

    Reasons why you don't trade Phillips:


    He plays when he is hurt. Gutting out injuries can both help or hurt a team. But it is an admirable quality.

    He is fan friendly.

    We have no viable replacement already on the team. His replacement would have to come in via trade or free agency.

    He has an energy that is lacking with most of this ball club.

    He likes "Debbies" and "swag". I am not certain what those things are, but some people think it is entertaining.

    I am in the trade BP camp. This team needs to improve offensively. Brandon is our best trade chip not named Chapman. If we can use Brandon to acquire younger cheaper talent and shed his contract I think it makes sense. If we trade BP because Bob doesn't like him it is a huge mistake. If you can improve the team by trading Phillips you do it and don't look back. If you can't find a deal that make the Reds better then you don't move him.

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    lex logan (11-12-2013)

  12. #25
    Member Lewdog's Avatar
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    Re: BP trade in the offseason?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rando View Post
    We know he can do it but he won't be better than BP
    That puts him in the same boat as about 95% of the second basemen in the league.

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    marcshoe (11-12-2013)

  14. #26
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    Re: BP trade in the offseason?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedlegJake View Post
    Well, I hope Walt shops him but like dfs says, guys with big contracts are on the bad side of the Billy Beane value equation nowadays and cheap prospects are on the high side. A team acquiring BP is going to argue that they are taking on salary so the return going to the Reds should be negligible. The Reds, of course will argue his glove and rbis make him valuable and try to get more but in the end unless the Reds kick in part of his contract or take back another high priced player in return to even the money it is going to be hard to deal him for value. That doesn't mean Walt shouldn't be asking, though.

    Even with BP's salary gone, I wonder if the Reds can compete for Choo in reality. The bidding could get silly with the year he has had. If someone is willing to go six years for instance, in order to sign him, no way in the world. And someone might.

    It is going to be an interesting and tough off season for Walt. His best trading pieces are also key elements of the team. The best prospects are counted on very soon and will replace guys that may not be affordable. None of the best prospects are guys that are blocked. The money situation is tight. There are some obvious weaknesses, like RH hitting - the vulnerability to lefties; the bench; Bailey's impending FA; Cueto's and Marshall's health; CF and is BH ready; Arroyo's contract - to make a qualifying offer or not; Choo. Really I think it's going to be a very critical offseason that may set up or break the team for the next few seasons. More so than most off seasons.
    I can certainly hope that Walt has a cell phone surgically placed on his ear this offseason (haha). If he doesn't make a few moves, I think it might be his time to go as well. Like you stated, and I 1000% agree with, this is probably the biggest offseason that I can remember.

    The reason is because I think the Cincy fanbase is so sick and tired of their teams being the laughing stock of the professional sports world-- always one and done and look bad doing so. With the firing of Dusty, they really put a big fire out with that IMO. They would of lost quite a few fans from not doing anything at all. I just hope that they make moves to equalize the teams future to more now than later, but still of course have pieces in play so your not stinky down the road. I just want one before I die gosh darn it

  15. #27
    Custodial Engineer Bob Sheed's Avatar
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    Re: BP trade in the offseason?

    Small to Mid-Market teams don't have the luxury of watching their star players decline with age.

    If they do, they won't have the luxury of making the playoffs.
    "And why do false truths persist, getting passed down the decades as if they were fact? It comes back to the same point: People believe things that are wrong because, individually, people rarely investigate their own beliefs, particularly when what they believe makes sense intuitively. Even more so when those around them agree with them." -K.F.

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    mth123 (11-13-2013), Revering4Blue (11-12-2013)

  17. #28
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    Re: BP trade in the offseason?

    Reds fans have been spoiled by Phillips. Look at the starting second baseman on all the other Major League teams and about 90% of those teams don't have a second baseman that can do what Phillips does offensively and defensively. Phillips worst year would be a career year for some of the other guys in the league. If people think he can be traded and easily replaced by some free agent, they need to think again. If it were so easy then no one would be trading for Phillips, they would be signing that free agent instead.

  18. #29
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    Re: BP trade in the offseason?

    Excellent summary. I'm for a three-way trade with Atlanta (we don't want Ugglia) and whoever though I suspect we can't really improve the team "on paper" trading Phillips. If we can get a productive outfielder, however, he should be moved.

  19. #30
    Member Larkin88's Avatar
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    Re: BP trade in the offseason?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lewdog View Post
    Reds fans have been spoiled by Phillips. Look at the starting second baseman on all the other Major League teams and about 90% of those teams don't have a second baseman that can do what Phillips does offensively and defensively. Phillips worst year would be a career year for some of the other guys in the league. If people think he can be traded and easily replaced by some free agent, they need to think again. If it were so easy then no one would be trading for Phillips, they would be signing that free agent instead.
    Not here to disagree with your opinion on BP. I think a lot of Reds fans would agree, and we definitely have been spoiled to what BP brings at second.

    It really is much more complicated than myopically focusing on production at second base, though. You are correct, there is virtually no scenario where BP could get traded, and the Reds will have better production from second base next season. There are, however, plenty of scenarios where taking a production hit at second could correct other areas of the club all things considered.

    BP is a great second baseman. He also is a great second baseman who stands to make a whole lotta money over the next few years. IF he gets traded, it is because the club wants to spread the value that his contract represents to other positions or needs. Not because they want to upgrade second base, necessarily.

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